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EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

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Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#11

Post by saiya-jin »

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

I'm left wing but I despair for the future of the left. If the right had control of the tech companies it would have removed left content years ago and never blinked or even thought twice about it. The right never agonises over its own strong decisions, whereas the left, if it takes strong action , wrings its hands in agony about whether it has done the correct thing or not. That's why in the long run the right will…

Edit: to all those downvoters, I've seen how socialism/communism simply doesn't work long term, how it ruins society and decent people living in it, first hand, as much as possible. So its a bit more personal than anonymous internet ninja philosophers so popular not only here these days.

What you write doesn't make much sense. The world isn't black and white, and left and right have whole spectrum. The ultra (left or right) never overthink their decision, always feel righteous even if heading straight to hell. If you think moderate left (ie EU from US perspective), it might be a correct assessment from certain point of view (not a big fan of EU here, I like the theory but not many things in practice).

Moderate right/centrists could be described exactly same things as you say about left.

Why right might beat left, at least in theory, is because it gives people more money directly. People like that. tey like to have some control over such an important thing. Instead of massive taxation, that in ideal world isn't stolen in some way (in reality much/most of it is, or at least very badly mismanaged) and spent in social, health, education, infrastructure etc.

Once folks see real money, they have at least some control/choice over it. Even if kindergardens cost a fortune (there are other options in some cases), and paid maternity leave is shorter (you can stay longer but unpaid). And health care might cost something (but apart from US its not a bad idea generally, works great in Switzerland for example).

Oh and don't forget the lean state aparate, very attractive unless you are actually some semi-useless otherwise unemployable state bureaucrat. And so on.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#12

Post by j_walter »

bmaisonp wrote: post #8
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

I'm left wing but I despair for the future of the left. If the right had control of the tech companies it would have removed left content years ago and never blinked or even thought twice about it. The right never agonises over its own strong decisions, whereas the left, if it takes strong action , wrings its hands in agony about whether it has done the correct thing or not. That's why in the long run the right will…

What makes you think that these platforms are actually taking action for "the left?" Is silicon valley actually a leftist paradise full of leftist megacorperations?

Ummm...yes

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/facebook-inc/summary?all=20...

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?id=D...

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/amazon-com/summary?all=2020...

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#13

Post by Traster »

disgrunt wrote: post #5
yummybear wrote: post #2

You really have to walk a censorship tight rope as a social media. You need to remove content that targets minorities and hate speech or face consequence, but only when it applies to the bottom 99% of society - apparently. The fact that the EU seems to want control over who gets to express themselves freely, is even more troubling than the inconsistent rules applies by the media themselves.

Suddenly it is very easy for the powers that be to see the threat these platforms pose. Deplatform little people? Fine with us. Deplatform a head of state? Can't have that! Facebook, Twitter, et al are going to regret the pandora's box of unintended consequences they just opened up with this move.

Frankly, facebook, twitter et al. really didn't have much choice. They've been as tolerant as they can be.

It was parler that screwed things up. It was meant to be a right wing equivalent to the left wing social media companies (who, coincidentally, are incredibly anti-union, anti-corporate tax, and anti-workers right, or as was previously known incredibly right wing). Instead they produced a platform that was rampant with death threats, resulting in the only (overtly) right wing platform collapsing.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#14

Post by grahamburger »

loxs wrote: post #6
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

I'm left wing but I despair for the future of the left. If the right had control of the tech companies it would have removed left content years ago and never blinked or even thought twice about it. The right never agonises over its own strong decisions, whereas the left, if it takes strong action , wrings its hands in agony about whether it has done the correct thing or not. That's why in the long run the right will…

The sad thing is that this is exactly how the right sees the actions of the left. and it's even worse, as they (the left) are now winning. Their eyes are not blinking - they don't care about freedom of speech or fair game. In the long run, both sides start to see this modus operandi as completely normal. Censorship and vengeance to the other side are completely acceptable. As a libertarian, I am utterly horrified.

What is the proper libertarian response to current events? Asking in good faith, honestly curious.

To be fair, I'm curious about what the response would be to BLM riots+politician involvement, MAGA riots+president involvement, and big tech censorship in response.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#15

Post by ortusdux »

Talanes wrote: post #3
yummybear wrote: post #2

You really have to walk a censorship tight rope as a social media. You need to remove content that targets minorities and hate speech or face consequence, but only when it applies to the bottom 99% of society - apparently. The fact that the EU seems to want control over who gets to express themselves freely, is even more troubling than the inconsistent rules applies by the media themselves.

Exactly this. The problem lies in the power to control expression lying in too few hands. Just having the same media system, but with the government directing who they ban is just passing the buck.

I've been wondering how much of all this is an (over?)reaction to the threat of the repeal of section 230. How many of the people making these decisions have reciently had meetings with legal where they learn what changes they would need to make to not risk lawsuits. Allowing governmental oversight, with legal protection, would sound pretty good in comparison.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#16

Post by FrameworkFred »

I see the argument the commission is making, but when it comes to the question of inciting violence on privately owned systems, is it really the right idea to move it to some sort of public committee when the target is "too big to censor?"

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#17

Post by ndiscussion »

loxs wrote: post #6
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

I'm left wing but I despair for the future of the left. If the right had control of the tech companies it would have removed left content years ago and never blinked or even thought twice about it. The right never agonises over its own strong decisions, whereas the left, if it takes strong action , wrings its hands in agony about whether it has done the correct thing or not. That's why in the long run the right will…

The sad thing is that this is exactly how the right sees the actions of the left. and it's even worse, as they (the left) are now winning. Their eyes are not blinking - they don't care about freedom of speech or fair game. In the long run, both sides start to see this modus operandi as completely normal. Censorship and vengeance to the other side are completely acceptable. As a libertarian, I am utterly horrified.

I used to be a libertarian until I realized my ideals would lead to my own party's censorship and demise.

This meme sums it up: https://imgur.com/a/DZJoWKa

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#18

Post by mhh__ »

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

I'm left wing but I despair for the future of the left. If the right had control of the tech companies it would have removed left content years ago and never blinked or even thought twice about it. The right never agonises over its own strong decisions, whereas the left, if it takes strong action , wrings its hands in agony about whether it has done the correct thing or not. That's why in the long run the right will…

I don't think the left could be reasonably construed to be in charge of social media. By output there's a lot of socialists online, for example, but they're not in charge.

Maybe some hyper-partisan American concept of leftism.

I absolutely agree that the right is partly successful because it isn't afraid to punch down from the status-quo. I'm a centre-right liberal democrat (UK), so I'm no socialist - although I firmly believe that most right-wingers are of the "capitalism for you, socialism for me"-type in practice.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#19

Post by bjeds »

I'm impressed that the EU is taking action in this case and I hope they also look into the shutdown of Parler under antitrust legislation.

Parler was the number one downloaded social media app in the app store after all. According to BBC the most popular accounts on Parler were people like Sean Hannity and Ted Cruz, who each had followers in the millions.

Of course Parler had a problem with some - maybe even many - violent people, like the Washington rioters, but it seems to me that the vast majority of Parler users were not violent people, but fairly normal republicans of the kind that are still not banned on Twitter and Facebook (like the two persons I mentioned).

Removing the hyperbole on each side, I think it'd be interesting if the EU looked into this to conclude if the shutdown of Parler was ok or not.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#20

Post by orange_tee »

FrameworkFred wrote: post #16

I see the argument the commission is making, but when it comes to the question of inciting violence on privately owned systems, is it really the right idea to move it to some sort of public committee when the target is "too big to censor?"

Remember that Facebook and Twitter only acted after the fact. For them, Trump was too big to censor too. They only took action days before he is out of office when it was guaranteed he would leave.
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