Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, watch as Biden berates black leaders. Tells one she can't read. Once you secure power, you don't necessarily like sharing it. Its like splitting the loot between thieves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3G7n21p0kY Lenin after securing power, quickly killed off or imprisoned people in his own communist party that he deemed might pose him a threat. Sadly this included most of the well meaning people and idealist…
Please stop using HN for ideological battle. Regardless of which ideology you're battling for, it's not what HN is for, and it destroys what it is for. You've been doing it a lot lately, and we ban that sort of account. I'm not going to ban you right now, because you've also been posting good comments. But if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this, we'd appreciate it.
Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
441–450 of 451 posts
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US is one of the most educated countries in the world! Only Korea and Canada are materially ahead of us in college attainment: https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/with... We’re way ahead of Germany or Italy. The America that sent a man to the moon had around 5% of people with a college degree.
Sure, but as someone not from the US it looks like that education ain't worth much in the US as you deliberately undermine peoples ability to learn critical thinking by teaching creationism in schools.
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
I completely agree. I would like to see some of the other replies here comment on how democracy can function if the citizens are incompetent/stupid. If they can't be trusted to be knowledgeable, then how can they make informed decisions, including voting? And of course, who decides which people hold legitimate positions and which people are ignorant?
This was considered and known by the framers of the Constitution. House of Representatives was designed to allow for direct election and therefore allow for the “stupid” (as you call it) common man to influence government. Most of the other branches (e.g. judicial, executive, and the Senate) were appointed by the supposedly “non-stupid” members of legislatures and judicial boards. The answer to the last question is n…
Due process? Nah, never heard of it. Dismiss with prejudice? I'm not prejudice! (Magistrates in my state don't even have to be lawyers)
My god, no wonder there are people who want to actually abolish the police. Gave me a lot of perspective. I contacted a civil rights lawyer and he said I have a case, but that judges don't want to be bothered with it unless it involves significant financial damages. Says a lot about how much the system values our rights.
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
US BLS, Census, ad NCES have comprehensive stats, with summaries at Wikipedia,[1] and whilst in overall numbers you're probably correct, there are some counterarguments. - Through the 1960s and possibly early 1970s, a solidly middle-class lifestyle remained possible without a college education. Apprentice and vocational tracks were abundant and viable. - US Census data show a Bachellors-level local maximum attainment…
But how is this a response to the comment below in the context of voters being educated and your initial response being that the peak was the peak was 1945-1985? "Do you think there was a time when the majority of the population were college educated? Or realistically had access to college education?" It seems overall the education of the population has risen, although it might not be as high quality. Also, this lowe…
Q: Was a time when the majority of the population were college educated?
A: With the absolute peak being both now below 50%, as a strict mathematical statement: No.
Q: When did realistic access to college education peak?
A: The confluence of factors in the 1960--1985 period ... arguably approaches this. Access was not gated by cost, gender, geography, or within a fair approximation, race, but by aptitude and interest. Not perfectly, but better than at any period before or since. The 1977 local maximum (as percent of population) supports this. Present access seems more push-based (obligation/necessity) than pull-based (interest, aptitude), compared to 1960--1980, by rough sense. The BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) to "attend college" was far more appealing then as to now. How to measure this? Hard to say, though the "college premium" or noncollege average or, say, 10%ile annual income, might be proxies.
Q: In the years 1945-85 you would have higher number of people who never went to high school?
A: That's shifting the question from (as I interpreted it) "when the majority of normatively college-aged persons (say, 16--29) had access to bachellors-level education", to "when the majority of voting-eligible residents had a 4-year college degree". The 2nd is a restatement of the first question above, the answer is still "no".
Either way, if you want to translate peak educational achievement to total voting population, you'd have to shift numbers foreward by life expectancy. Say, by 65 years assuming educational completion by age 25 on average. So the US are presently bounded by the 1955 educational cohort, with both secondary and postsecondary attainment growing for the next 22 years to the 1977 maxima. Net of immigration's effect on numbers. By that argument, voter education levels will probably increase for another two decades, though college-level degrees will remain a minority.
This also highlights an issue with the data we're discussing, which measures total poulation educational attainment, and not education-aged attainment. That is, 80% population high-school graduation implies a higher graduation (or GED) rate by, say, age 19. So we're on the hunt for data actually answering our question. NCES does give diplomas conferred somewhere, these can be compared to cohort population with some finagling.
Understanding questions, data, and baselines is critical.
See, e.g., https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/educatio...
You might like this plot: https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2017/comm/amer...
Public High School Graduation Rates (Last Updated: May 2020) https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coi.asp
Gives Adjusted cohort graduation (ACGR), the term you probably want. The racial divides are ... sobering. And not necessarily as expected.)
Q: Is education received as high-quality?
A: This is the tough one. Quality here needs to be considered as "fitness to purpose", and ... well, purpose has changed. There's also the credentialing role of education, and the more credentials you hand out, the less distinguishing they are, though by inversion, the more arbitrary earlier credentials may have been. High school graduation rates in the US in 1900 were, I forget if it was 6% or 10%, but low. Overwhelmingly male and white, so among that cohort, closer to 25%. (Much attainment gain has come from increased access, across numerous domains, not just education.) Curriculum and consequence were much nearer a two-year, or higher, college education, as were certification and networking benefits.
NCES does some measures, including very infrequent, but fascinating, National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL), with assessments in 1985 (NAEP), 1992 (NALS), and 2003, covering prose, document, and quantitative literacy. The 2003 survey sampled 19,000 resident adults.
There's a psychology of cognitive development, notably Jean Piaget's (1896--1980) work on stages and level of development, which posits fairly persistent population limits on attainment levels, though I'm only very lightly familiar with the field and current state of knowledge.
Recent studies of computer literacy, however, tend to strongly corroborate Piaget's notions of general atrainment level, notably a 2016 OECD study of computer skills across 215,942 people in 33 countries. If you're in the infotech sector, the findings are sobering. Jacob Nielsen has an excellent write-up, and the study a keystone of my own "Tyranny of the Minimum Viable User" essay.
The upshot is that the needle may only be capable of being pushed so far, and diminishing returns set in early. Increasing access and support at the lowest levels should have vastly greater returns than attempting to raise the highest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piaget
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaget%27s_theory_of_cognitive...
http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/9789264258051-en
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/69wk8y/the_tyr...
Direct measures of knowledge and intelligence prove complex.
Q: Does this result in the most educated populace the US has ever seen?
A: Again, by a confluence of measures, I'm not comfortable drawing this conclusion. Fundamentally it confounds inputs (years of schooling), arbitrary indicia (diplomas conferred), and results (population intellectual capacity). It ignores not only shifting academic baselines (curricula, degre requirements, major course of study mix), as discussed, but other factors significant in a political context. A key one being the creation of a small number of tech or other highly-skilled professional hubs, which geographically concentrate educated populations. Given the electoral colleges effective "land vote" (two senate seats per state, regardless of population), education is systemically underrepresented in Presidential, Senate, and (similarly) statehouse politics (both states collectively and internally). This itself considerable dampens effects of education in muany political races and issues.
There's also the fact that educational attainment does not itself seem to preclude leadership in fascist politics, witness those in leadership positions of such movements around the world. A factor which somewhat un-asks the initial question. Mu.
On a number of grounds, I really don't see education by itself as a saviour, thogh it does play some role. More modest than many seem to advocate or hope.
A bit long and wandering somewhat from your specific question, I apologise. Hopefully useful.
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey I broke the rules, what can I say. But that wasn't really the point. This is also an interesting take on profanity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13412107 But let me actually amend my comment above here, it wasn't even that bad, the actual words were "lying a#s." I just felt like there was an interaction that didn't need to happen because people see different sets of comments, my original comment being not…
Yeah I actually do think that the profanity can indicate more honesty. The trouble is, if it’s also combined with a personal attack on others it inflames conversations. Two people can then rile themselves up and derail an entire thread. Of course the comment replying to you did the same thing: made a personal attack on you, and it derailed you into a personal attack with swearing.
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
US BLS, Census, ad NCES have comprehensive stats, with summaries at Wikipedia,[1] and whilst in overall numbers you're probably correct, there are some counterarguments. - Through the 1960s and possibly early 1970s, a solidly middle-class lifestyle remained possible without a college education. Apprentice and vocational tracks were abundant and viable. - US Census data show a Bachellors-level local maximum attainment…
But how is this a response to the comment below in the context of voters being educated and your initial response being that the peak was the peak was 1945-1985? "Do you think there was a time when the majority of the population were college educated? Or realistically had access to college education?" It seems overall the education of the population has risen, although it might not be as high quality. Also, this lowe…
Elite overproduction, and especially overproduction of the youth with advanced degrees, continues unabated. Our institutions of higher education have been churning out law, MBA, and PhD degrees, many more than could be absorbed by the economy. In a Bloomberg View article published just a few days ago Noah Smith provides the numbers for the overproduction of PhDs (America Is Pumping Out Too Many Ph.D.s https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-01-04/americ...).
http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/the-storming-of-the-u-s...
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is well known that an educated, free people are necessary for the functioning of democracy. It's part of the justification for the 1st Amendment. We have new technologies which are being leveraged to intentionally misinform people, in a society that has degraded public education and raised the cost of higher education to levels prohibitive for the majority of the population, and as a result, the society (as a whol…
The US is one of the most educated countries in the world! Only Korea and Canada are materially ahead of us in college attainment: https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/with... We’re way ahead of Germany or Italy. The America that sent a man to the moon had around 5% of people with a college degree.
Elite overproduction, and especially overproduction of the youth with advanced degrees, continues unabated. Our institutions of higher education have been churning out law, MBA, and PhD degrees, many more than could be absorbed by the economy. In a Bloomberg View article published just a few days ago Noah Smith provides the numbers for the overproduction of PhDs (America Is Pumping Out Too Many Ph.D.s https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-01-04/americ...).
http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/the-storming-of-the-u-s...
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
This kind of behavior by facebook is only going to radicalize people and make them extremely suspicious of anyone that disagrees with them. Do you think someone prone to conspiracy theories is going to start listening to people who are actively campaigning for the destruction/deletion of information. We need consensus and half of consensus means listening.
For more than a decade, we have seen how social networks let conspiracies and extremist views thrive and how they were amplified. There is ample evidence that "listening" does not tame or squash these positions on these platforms.
On other platforms they get orders of magnitude more interest because they were censored, and more people move to other platforms.
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
TL;DR version 1) Goldwater’s landslide loss in 1964, winning no Republican states other than his own, proved that opposing the civil rights act of 1964 wasn’t tenable for either party . It’s not like Democrats could have beat Reagan had they opposed it. They would have lost their northern base, just as Goldwater lost the Republican base in 1964. It’s one factor in the detachment of the south from the Democratic Party…
It's not often I get to say that I think you're genuinely wrong, but here I think you're really far off the mark. Goldwater flipped the deep south (GA SC AL MS and LA). Nixon noticed and ran the same strategy in '68, by which point the entire south, wall-to-wall, was lined up behind the southern strategy (the states that didn't go for Nixon went for Wallace). I don't see any way you can read the history of the 1960s…
Goldwater offered a libertarian justification for allowing the south to continue segregation. And what did that get him? He flipped five Deep South states, at the expense of losing every traditionally Republican state Nixon had won in 1960, with the exception of Arizona. Goldwater lost stalwart Republican states in the Great Plains and Mountain West, like Colorado, that had voted against FDR three out of four times. Supporting segregation was a political loser for Republicans.
Nixon and Reagan did not "run the same strategy." Neither supported segregation. They didn't have to. Democrats, having abandoned their segregationist wing, sought far-reaching government programs and social engineering to remedy economic and social disparities, as Democrats are wont to do. Nixon and Reagan pushed back on those policies, entirely consistent with Republican ideology.
This article does a good job explaining what really happened: https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/the-myth-of-the-racist-re...
> The evidence suggests that the GOP advanced in the South because it attracted much the same upwardly mobile (and non-union) economic and religious conservatives that it did elsewhere in the country.
Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, they just control the world's largest public square.
Yeah - a private company. Before them people found ways to communicate that didn't prey on the weak parts of human psychology. Why not use those methods now? Why is a private service provider beholden to any crackpot? Is the argument being made that the government should be in charge of how private companies moderate their content? Or just that you disagree with Facebook's choice? If it's the latter, that's fine, we…