Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election • Hacker News Board

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#91

Post by Moodles » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #58

Moodles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because the trade off is worth it, and we should treat people like grownups who can think for themselves. Why not encourage critical thinking and wider reading, instead of being the police of literally all the information on your giant social media platform?

Critical thinking? The vast majority of useful information in the world is based on trust and authority, not on critical verification and people examining the evidence directly. Do you have any idea just how much work it is to verify that just the facts cited actually match up? That doesn't include verifying if the facts are accurate in and in itself. I did a surface level verification to a virology professor, and I…

I understand (and agree) that the majority of knowledge we have is based on authority. I'm not suggesting everyone should do their own climate change research to believe climate change. I'm just suggesting they don't have to believe all the headlines they read, they can read multiple news sources with different political views, etc. Basically, you want people to decentralize their trust in authority. I think that'll quell fake news more than getting Facebook to try to moderate it all a like giant, impossible game of whack-o-mole. It doesn't have to be that complicated. We (try to) teach school children this in history class. I think it's a lot more complicated, and risky, to overly moderate your tech platform for "misleading" news, particularly related to politics.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#92

Post by munk-a » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #68

pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been audits of the voting system. They didn't believe them, and they were reported falsely in the media they follow. It's a cult. It's like trying to convince them that aliens don't exist. (Epstein would have been prosecuted .. if he hadn't died in extremely mysterious circumstances. Now that's a situation where absence of evidence where evidence should be expected - the security cameras - drives paranoia.…

The “cult” (if you insist) was once much smaller, so something must be driving this phenomenon, which means there is hope that we can stop or even reverse it. What makes people go from believing the media, science, etc to unwarranted skepticism? Specifically, what changed in the last couple of decades that might’ve yielded this result? My pet theory is that our institutions increasingly pivoted from truth-seeking to…

> something must be driving this phenomenon

I think that thing is the shift from being anti-science from being uninformed and ignorant to being anti-science being praise worthy since "You can like see through all the BS man". There was once a time when facts and the act of gaining knowledge were really highly praised by Americans but that has shifted. IMO, one of the highest praised virtues today is that of grifting, if you're a scientist and smart then whatever - but if you're an idiot and manage to trick people into thinking you're a smart dude then all praise to you. You beat the system, you're playing 4D chess!

I think (again heavily into my opinion) that this shift occurred because politics shifted to a point where politicians were incentivized to support policies that were actively harming their constituents - discovering that lead was unhealthy and all of the other side effects of pollutants - put a lot of money into the anti-science campaign and let the demonization of intellect flourish.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#93

Post by exabrial » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #21

tehjoker wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy thing is that the Q-Anon people will inevitably see the spate of arrests and censorship as "The Storm" prophecy coming true but in reverse, an "Anti-Storm". I have a feeling this will only make many of them even more committed and possibly now that they can point to something real, could even grow the movement. Crazy stuff.

Whenever I hear these comments I wonder what the recommendation is to shrink the movement. Obviously open conversations did not stop the movement from growing.

I'll throw one in: requirement that all electronic voting systems have 100% of source code available to review by anyone, with the exception of private keys or symmetric keys, which would only be available in extremely limited circumstances.

To be clear, I'm in the "the 2020 election was fine" camp. I just think this is something a government "by the people" should be doing anyway.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#94

Post by geofft » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #69

tehjoker wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy thing is that the Q-Anon people will inevitably see the spate of arrests and censorship as "The Storm" prophecy coming true but in reverse, an "Anti-Storm". I have a feeling this will only make many of them even more committed and possibly now that they can point to something real, could even grow the movement. Crazy stuff.

People seem not to realize that every action spawns a reaction by the other side, especially extreme ones. All this censoring will almost undoubtably cause some people on the other side to double down, unfortunately. :/

Inaction also spawns a reaction by the other side, as most infamously Chamberlain learned. I don't really buy a policy proposal of "ignore it and it will go away" absent some more concrete reason to believe it.

And, in fact, the policy we've been taking re QAnon over the last few years was precisely "ignore it and it will go away," and it didn't work out so well.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#95

Post by slg » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #53

djtriptych wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I hear these comments I wonder what the recommendation is to shrink the movement. Obviously open conversations did not stop the movement from growing.

Personally I think these movements are the natural result of pivoting our epistemological institutions from truth-seeking to progressive political advocacy. The right in particular has less reason to recognize these institutions as “truth authorities” as even when the right has a good point (e.g., when the right asks, “how do we know that racism and not crime rates belies police shooting disparities?”) , they can rel…

>Personally I think these movements are the natural result of pivoting our epistemological institutions from truth-seeking to progressive political advocacy.

What institutions are you claiming have shifted from "truth-seeking to progressive political advocacy"? It seems to me that the reason these institutions appear more progressive is that American conservatism is becoming less and less in touch with the truth. There are countless examples, but the two most obvious ones are climate change and the politicization of basic COVID precautions like mask wearing. When you stake out the claim that acknowledging climate change is a progressive viewpoint, the National Weather Service is going to start looking progressive when it reports facts.

>when the right asks, “how do we know that racism and not crime rates belies police shooting disparities?”

The problem is that when these questions are answered "the right" just dismisses the answers as biased. There is little to no way to satisfactorily answer that question in a way that will change people's minds if they already believe that police are justifiably harsher against Black people because Black people commit more crime.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#96

Post by AndrewUnmuted » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

uniqueid wrote: post #71

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both spellings of that word are acceptable. Get off of your high horse, especially if you can't even ride it yourself. Your depictions of the very disturbed, impoverished and desperate people involved in the DC/Capitol building fiasco are heartless, cruel, and completely uncivilized. You clearly have no idea what is going on in their lives, just as so many of them were unaware of what the BLM marches were all about.

Both spellings of that word are acceptable Because I was quoting a single word, I just typed it into my phone, which 'autocorrected' it. There's nobody, and I mean 'nobody' literally, whose actions I cannot empathize with, if I take into account their limitations and life experiences. It's impractical to do that in everyday life. One would never be able to pass judgement on anybody. And I pass judgement on these dang…

You've had an entire year to understand that people's lives are being wrecked senselessly and needlessly by unprecedented, totally illegal government mandates.

The lockdowns caused the madness of the BLM summer, and it caused this thing that happened last Wednesday. People are at their buckling points, and that is a thing ripe for malicious actors to take advantage of. Even you:

> drooling, bearded gun-monkeys clambering on tables

Seriously? This is bigotry. How much do you need to tweak this sentence before it is _very conventionally_ racist?

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#97

Post by ejanus » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

slim wrote: post #46

antiman0 wrote: post #4

> A source in Uganda’s telecom sector said the government had made clear to executives at telecoms companies that the social media ban was in retaliation for Facebook blocking some pro-government accounts. This is probably the interesting bit - a retaliatory move by a regime trying to silence the opposition. I don't think this has too many parallels (except for blocking of accounts) with the current US events, which…

It is related to US elections. because dictators in Africa can point to USA when they get criticized. Why should Facebook have the power to police speech during elections in Uganda and not the state of Uganda ?

Don't use such words here dictators_ and why Africa?

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#98

Post by rvz » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

secondcoming wrote: post #8

It would be an interesting social experiment to see what happens if twitter turned itself off worldwide for a week.

Then the world’s media companies would have to report actual “news”.

Which is boring to them and essentially doesn’t attract the extra eyeballs they need to make enough revenue.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#99

Post by xref » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

citilife wrote: post #56

xref wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“US was a great role model this year. We aspire to feed our citizens a steady stream of disinformation so they are ready to storm the government and overturn the election if it doesn’t go our way” Everyone keeps making these same points in every thread, and no minds are changed.

You assume the steady stream of disinformation is only coming from facebook, and not the news corporations. The reality is that CNN, MSNBC, Huffington post, New York Times, FOX, etc. all are shoving fluffed up pieces with an extreme bias. Every media outlet is doing this. > Everyone keeps making these same points in every thread, and no minds are changed. I agree with this. This is why we have always defaulted to "fr…

> we've effectively silenced tens of millions in response.

Let’s be honest, exactly 0 people have been “silenced” on either the left or right. The fact both Stormfront and Daily Stormer are still online attests to the fact that in the modern world it is not possible to “silence” anyone at all.

And while a violent fringe may complain about how loud their megaphone is now, everyone still has their soapbox. We’re here on HN using one right now.

Re: Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

#100

Post by lkxijlewlf » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

djtriptych wrote: post #21

tehjoker wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy thing is that the Q-Anon people will inevitably see the spate of arrests and censorship as "The Storm" prophecy coming true but in reverse, an "Anti-Storm". I have a feeling this will only make many of them even more committed and possibly now that they can point to something real, could even grow the movement. Crazy stuff.

Whenever I hear these comments I wonder what the recommendation is to shrink the movement. Obviously open conversations did not stop the movement from growing.

That would be difficult.

I personally believe Q is an organization of trolls. They exploit/prey upon people's desire to be a part of something larger than themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if there's merely a couple handfuls of people all trying to outdo each other developing these conspiracies that keep to the Q lore/universe while spreading like fire. I don't think these people actually believe any of these conspiracies. They simply want to come up with ways to make other people believe what they want them to and act out on those beliefs.