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NFL player IQ by position

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Re: NFL player IQ by position

#71

Post by wumi »

lexlibra wrote: post #20
pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

"Remember, these are averages, and all groups overlap. You can't deduce an individual's intelligence from her ethnicity. The only thing you can reasonably infer is that anyone who presumes to rate your IQ based on the color of your skin is probably dumber than you are."

http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?action=print&id=217812...

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#72

Post by quews »

lexlibra wrote: post #20
pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

As a long time (silent) reader of Hacker News posts and comments, this comment easily ranks as one of the most offensive, and perhaps the most disturbing.

The notion that race fundamentally has anything to do with intelligence should offend any sane, rational, science-minded person who is even just scarcely familiar with the history of the pseudo-science of eugenics and the countless studies debunking it many claims.

However, more offensive than that, I find the fact that this comment is still here and in fact, up-modded, as offensive to the very core…

What the comment says implicitly is that “Blacks are dumber than Whites - DUH.” If he had simply typed this, perhaps the comment would have been removed or at the very least down-modded to oblivion so that my reading it would have been my own damned fault.

But what is astonishing (and inexplicable, considering the great number of comments I have read on this forum, lauding and praising the seemingly high intellect of the people who frequent this forum) is that because the poster had the guile to conceal his ignorant comment with more words, not only was this comment given credibility, but many had the sheer audacity to up-mod this nonsense. This is sobering…

But what really woke me up, was realizing that the utterly ignorant comment was in response to PG – who is by all accounts the de-facto host/role-model here. I figured I would scroll down a short distance and see the straight-forward, no nonsense rebuttal I have seen him give to comments much less deserving of a dressing down – no such luck.

I shuddered. To think that this is the same man who writes all those essays wherein the common thread is a brutal application of logic – why the silence here, when given what amounts to a perfect lead-in?

Why not quickly question if it is even possible to test for intelligence? Why not describe what such a test might look like if it is indeed possible? Why not suggest that a time delineated test full of arithmetic might be the worst candidate for such a test (as it implies that computers would then be said to have such intelligence in spades)? Why not question the deep-sinking stereotypical association with speed-in-calculation ability with intellect? Why not?

Let me not speculate as to why not. Let me just say to all who know better, but said and will continue to say nothing – SHAME.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#73

Post by aswanson »

occam wrote: post #17

Hi, Occam here. This is just a map of the white/black ratio of each position. There is a 15 point difference between the mean IQ of European-descended (white) Americans and African-descended (black) Americans Please note this is something You Can't Say so don't speak publicly of it. The most interesting thing to note here is that white players score about half a standard deviation higher than the national white IQ, a…

A sad day for HN when sailer starts posting here. Sad indeed.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#74

Post by echair »

anewaccountname wrote: post #65
lexlibra wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of a racial gap in IQ is simply not in dispute. It shows up in SAT scores, it shows up in military IQ tests during times with a draft, and it shows up in numerous psychological studies. See for instance this paper from Brookings Institute, which is about as mainstream liberal as you can get ( http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pd... ) The only question is if the difference or envi…

>Studies of IQ highly correlate with latitude. People of northern Chinese and Mongolian origin score higher than the Vietnamese. In limited studies, Intuits score higher than Native Americans from Central America. 60,000 years is actually quite a long time, and the skills necessary to survive harsh northern winters are very different than those needed to survive in tropical jungles. Hpw about Ashkenazi Jews, whom hav…

They originate from a higher latitude than they like to think. That's why they look so different from sephardic Jews. (But this is also a controversial topic.)

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#75

Post by dpapathanasiou »

DaniFong wrote: post #56
dpapathanasiou wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't like Gladwell's talk because he ignored baseball: teams like Oakland and Boston have started to understand what metrics do work in assessing player performance (Michael Lewis wrote about this in detail in " Moneyball "). By ignoring something because it doesn't fit in his neat theory, Gladwell loses credibility on this topic.

You might like to know that Malcolm was asked in an interview elsewhere about Moneyball, and he mentions it as one of his favorite books, and indeed he calls it one of the most important works of nonfiction of the past decade. Apparently he's found a way to resolve these difficulties, but not in a way that found it into a 20 minute talk -- I guess it has to wait for the book.

I suppose Gladwell likes Moneyball because it's everything his books are not: a Big Idea that is actually corroborated by all the evidence.

I remember reading Blink and thinking, "hey, this anecdote just contradicted a point he made earlier".

Gladwell is a great storyteller, but he wants so badly to find larger patterns at work that he overlooks the possibility that there aren't any.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#76

Post by radu_floricica »

cglee wrote: post #58
lexlibra wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think that's why so people ( including me once upon a time) want to avoid talking about genetic explanations for the IQ gap as long as there is any possibility of it being environmental. But I also think a lot of damage can be done by avoiding talk of genetic differences. The media, politicians, and educational institutions have been telling black people that the problems in the black community are all a r…

I agree with the first part of your post. Regarding the second part of our post: 1) if black communities are still feeling the negative effects of slavery and discrimination, then we should recognize this, regardless of its effects on economic advancement (ie, tell the truth, even when it hurts) 2) the phrase "telling black people that" really bothers me because it subtly implies black people can't figure it out with…

About your second point, unfortunately _most_ people, regardless of race, believe what they are told. Unfortunate as it may be, his remark was valid.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#77

Post by radu_floricica »

lexlibra wrote: post #20
pg wrote: post #6

It may not be anything so complicated as smarter people being closer to the ball. It looks to me as if there is an inverse correlation between IQ and the running speed necessary in a position. So the simplest explanation for this pattern is that running speed and intelligence aren't highly correlated, and you can't simultaneously optimize for both. E.g. you can pick a smart guy to be your center even if he's slow, be…

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

Oh damn. I tried to write an comment about how I agree in principle but this is not the place for the discussion, but re-reading your comment I realized I was wrong. It's a pertinent argument and has my upvote.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#78

Post by edw519 »

quews wrote: post #72
lexlibra wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

As a long time (silent) reader of Hacker News posts and comments, this comment easily ranks as one of the most offensive, and perhaps the most disturbing. The notion that race fundamentally has anything to do with intelligence should offend any sane, rational, science-minded person who is even just scarcely familiar with the history of the pseudo-science of eugenics and the countless studies debunking it many claims.…

As a long time (silent) reader of Hacker News posts and comments, this comment easily ranks as one of the most offensive, and perhaps the most disturbing.

Perhaps you should be a little less silent.

If this comment is any indication, your contributions could significantly improve the quality of our community. Don't leave it to the rest of us.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#79

Post by Herring »

quews wrote: post #72
lexlibra wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

As a long time (silent) reader of Hacker News posts and comments, this comment easily ranks as one of the most offensive, and perhaps the most disturbing. The notion that race fundamentally has anything to do with intelligence should offend any sane, rational, science-minded person who is even just scarcely familiar with the history of the pseudo-science of eugenics and the countless studies debunking it many claims.…

Offensiveness is irrelevant. The question of whether there is an IQ gap between races is a factual issue & I think it has been settled. As far as I know there are many possible causes & the GP didn't specifically mention genes so you shouldn't automatically think eugenics.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#80

Post by gruseom »

edw519 wrote: post #78
quews wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long time (silent) reader of Hacker News posts and comments, this comment easily ranks as one of the most offensive, and perhaps the most disturbing. The notion that race fundamentally has anything to do with intelligence should offend any sane, rational, science-minded person who is even just scarcely familiar with the history of the pseudo-science of eugenics and the countless studies debunking it many claims.…

As a long time (silent) reader of Hacker News posts and comments, this comment easily ranks as one of the most offensive, and perhaps the most disturbing. Perhaps you should be a little less silent. If this comment is any indication, your contributions could significantly improve the quality of our community. Don't leave it to the rest of us.

You think people screaming "SHAME" is an improvement in quality?
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