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Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

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Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#351

Post by Marrand »

macspoofing wrote: post #337
tracnar wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe imposed a standard for phone chargers and thanks to that you don't need a different charger per brand, or even per model, like it was 15 years ago. AFAIK they did not specify the exact standard, except that it has to be some common industry standard, so it did not prevent moving from micro-USB to USB-C (and whatever Apple is using).

>Europe imposed a standard for phone chargers and thanks to that you don't need a different charger per brand ... The rest of the world didn't and yet I hadn't needed to get a different charger per brand for, I'd say, a decade or more. What's the utility of creating a regulatory and enforcement framework for something that happened anyway?

The rest of the world didn't have to because if the Brussels effect. When the EU legislates it is basically cheaper for companies to just fall in line rather than create separate production lines.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#352

Post by prosaic-hacker »

Mauricebranagh wrote: post #72
nfriedly wrote: post #52

I just replaced the battery in my Pixel 2 this past weekend. It was a 2-3 hour project that involved a whole kit of tools in addition to the new battery. It was a PITA, but I am thankful that a) iFixit provided a helpful guide and a kit with all of the things I needed except for the rubbing alcohol and b) it was legal and there weren't any software issues to deal with. Aside from the aging battery and occasionally ru…

But why not buy a cheap motog phone and save $500 in the first place

That is what I have done since my first cell phone over 20 years ago. My Nokia 3310 series lasted 8 years, a Samsung slider 5 years both phone cost up front and pay as you go.(there were 2 to other short term hand me down due to dropped phones) When the Glass Slabs and WIFI in phone became useful I bought an unlocked Moto E2 ($200CDN @ Staples 2015) which was replace by a Moto G7 Play ($150CDN @ Costco 2019).

Did I miss anything by buying cheap. Maybe, but no one with a $1100 phone has shown me my life in "Vale of Tears" App that I cannot have.

The G7 is getting updates and works. the E2 still works and was my "Give to American's who had bad outside of the US" plan.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#353

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ska wrote: post #169
paradox242 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common things that existed 20, 30, or even 40 years like refrigerators, coffee machines, dishwashers, washers, and dryers, often lasted 10 or 20 years in some cases, and could be repaired. We have witnessed the steep decline of device reliability in my lifetime, and our expectations are so low that the latest appliance we buy we consider lucky if no problems develop in 2-3 years. Anything serious requires you to usua…

This is true, but it seems to be mostly consumer preference. That 30 year old refrigerator cost more (normalized) and does less than most of the ones you can buy today. When people offer longer lived, better built versions for more money, most people don't buy them. The same thing happened to furniture.

Its hard to tell whats a quality product and what is overpriced swindle. You can buy a phone for 2 grand but it won't last

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#354

Post by ClumsyPilot »

esyir wrote: post #304
corty wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The abstract problem is that the market is imperfect due to insufficient customer knowledge. I know my last washing machine lasted X years, but how that will compare to the new one from the same manufacturer, I don't know. The manufacturer also won't (really) tell me, just the usual fluff about quality. So as a consumer, I am unable to decide objectively, just using rumours if there isn't a hard guarantee or a trustw…

Isn't the warranty pretty much the metric of "how long it'll last", as expected by the manufacturer? A long warranty, while not a guarantee, is pretty correlated to the product lifespan.

I have not found it to be the case, one of my displays lasted 7 years and still works, the other gave out in 3, both had 1 year warfanty. Dell and asus respectively.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#355

Post by macspoofing »

Marrand wrote: post #351
macspoofing wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Europe imposed a standard for phone chargers and thanks to that you don't need a different charger per brand ... The rest of the world didn't and yet I hadn't needed to get a different charger per brand for, I'd say, a decade or more. What's the utility of creating a regulatory and enforcement framework for something that happened anyway?

The rest of the world didn't have to because if the Brussels effect. When the EU legislates it is basically cheaper for companies to just fall in line rather than create separate production lines. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

So the 'Brussels effect' has a time-travel based component? If not, I don't see how a July 2020 ruling affected my charger experience in 2012.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#356

Post by burntoutfire »

varjag wrote: post #212
paradox242 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common things that existed 20, 30, or even 40 years like refrigerators, coffee machines, dishwashers, washers, and dryers, often lasted 10 or 20 years in some cases, and could be repaired. We have witnessed the steep decline of device reliability in my lifetime, and our expectations are so low that the latest appliance we buy we consider lucky if no problems develop in 2-3 years. Anything serious requires you to usua…

About any fridge you buy now would last a decade easily. Several decades even, if you bother to invest into its maintenance and repair like people did 40 years ago.

How do you do maintenance on a fridge?

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#357

Post by varjag »

burntoutfire wrote: post #356
varjag wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About any fridge you buy now would last a decade easily. Several decades even, if you bother to invest into its maintenance and repair like people did 40 years ago.

How do you do maintenance on a fridge?

Back in the day it was routine to change the compressor, or even repair the failed one piecewise (bearings, manifolds). Refill the leaked coolant and braze the leaks.

You can still do that on most modern fridges, but it's not worth the effort with appliance prices now. They also don't fail often these days.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#358

Post by burntoutfire »

ako wrote: post #114
mywacaday wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube on my mother in laws Samsung tablet from 2013 has stopped working. It has stopped because it has android 4 and you can't update chrome past V42 and youtube won't load without a later version of chrome. I installed firefox and she has access to youtube through the web for now. The tablet is in immaculate condition physically. if it played youtube in 2013 it should be able to play it now, it cost over €500 at t…

That is not planned obsolence. Nobody said this tablet should stop working by 2021. It's simply the result of limiting cost of software development. If you are creating a new version of android, you cant affort to support all devices. If you create a new version of chrome, you cant affort to support all version of android. If you create a new version of youtube, you cant afford to support all versions of chrome, etc,…

> If you create a new version of chrome, you cant affort to support all version of android. If you create a new version of youtube, you cant afford to support all versions of chrome, etc, etc.

Google is making billions per year, they can certainly afford to support all versions of Android. They just choose to pocket the money and screw their customers instead.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#359

Post by RMPR »

ogre_codes wrote: post #164

I kind of wonder if we're looking at solving this the wrong way. Instead of mandating that manufacturers take specific steps to fix the waste problem, maybe it would be better to tag items at manufacture and charge device makers a percentage based on how long before it enters the waste stream. Manufacturers could solve this by either: - Making their things easy to repair - Creating in house recycling programs - Makin…

> Few people care to repair Android phones because you can't upgrade the OS after 2 years regardless.

A little nitpick but, for Google's phones it's way more than that.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#360

Post by squiggleblaz »

r00fus wrote: post #237
tjoff wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer though you could also have bought it in a store or waited until you needed something else as well. I never understood the mindset of buying only a usb-stick or similar online. Yes, the waste is obnoxious, but the consumer isn't always innocent either.

Buying in-store or via delivery service (as opposed to Amazon) is almost guaranteed to increase the amount of plastic packaging. Many stores have those stupid anti-consumer clamshell packages (mostly to reduce shoplifting, but at high environmental cost). Let's not forget all the packaging in shipping the item to the destination as well (that you don't see because it's discarded in the shipping room floor). It's gott…

> It's gotten to the point where I simply don't buy unless I absolutely need it anymore.

I mean, that is the most environmentally friendly solution.

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