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Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

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Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#41

Post by ben-schaaf »

m_st wrote: post #23

Quote form their slide: "Optimizing 11th gen power and performance in the best enthusiast platform for gaming & content creation" Why should I be an enthusiast? Indeed I wait for a much faster laptop to replace my venerable Dell XPS15 9550 for software development. But my mom also deserves a fast laptop for web browsing and emailing. It's funny how they try to segment the market because they can't deliver the same po…

Yields and binning are a good thing. They allow price sensitive customers to get more value and price insensitive customers to get more performance.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#43

Post by R0b0t1 »

m_st wrote: post #23

Quote form their slide: "Optimizing 11th gen power and performance in the best enthusiast platform for gaming & content creation" Why should I be an enthusiast? Indeed I wait for a much faster laptop to replace my venerable Dell XPS15 9550 for software development. But my mom also deserves a fast laptop for web browsing and emailing. It's funny how they try to segment the market because they can't deliver the same po…

I find the word enthusiast problematic for different reasons. Enthusiast means non-professional tricked into spending way too much money. I intentionally avoid most things labelled enthusiast, it's a money pit because Intel wants your money.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#44

Post by traveler01 »

mwcampbell wrote: post #33

45W hardly strikes me as "mobile". That's in the realm of laptops with fans and big batteries, right? I figured a "mobile" processor would need a maximum TDP of 15W or less.

My gaming laptop has a i7-9750H with the same rating. Considering how low the bar as placed by the M1, you're right.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#45

Post by dijit »

breakfastduck wrote: post #18
melling wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition is good. Everyone should want Intel to perform at a high level.

Yeah I've never understood the attitude of wanting someone like Intel to fail. If they start pushing back with strong performing CPUs it will only increase competition and help push Apple and AMD even further. Not sure why people think an AMD monopoly would be any better than the intel we've seen over the past 5 years. If they lose their main competitor they'd take their foot off the gas on performance / process impr…

> Yeah I've never understood the attitude of wanting someone like Intel to fail.

I can give a pretty clear reason: they deserve to.

They committed two cardinal sins and one that pisses me off personally:

1) Using their monopoly position to crush competition, over and over and over. Using shady business practices and their enormous wealth to kludge any person who could even attempt to compete.

Examples include: Cyrix, the 80386 branding (IE, trademarking "Pentium" so that they could force processor companies to be unable to claim "Pentium-compatible" after failing to trademark their CPU model numbers), crippling their compiler on AMD platforms (checking CPU version strings to enable CPU acceleration for things like AVX instead of checking CPUID like it should) and even going so far as to set embargos on their new CPUs until the day of large competitor product announcemnets to drown out the news or make the new products seem potentially uncompetitive and that consumers should wait for intel (more info here; https://www.overclock.net/threads/intel%E2%80%99s-behavior-i... )

Hell, they even changed the way they market TDP to be the "average" not the max load.

2) Resting on their laurals.

CPUs have stagnated in the desktop/laptop market for 10 years, meanwhile phones have caught up and even in some cases exceeded the performance of desktop/laptop CPUs, to the point where people are looking at Apples M1 as a revolution.

3) Aggressively segmenting the market, steering it towards bad ideas.

16 PCI lanes and lack of ECC memory are just a few things that are terrible about intel CPUs in the consumer market.

Those are not enthusiast requirements, those benefit everyone.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#46

Post by daniel-cussen »

ksec wrote: post #30
Jonnax wrote: post #16

From this article: https://wccftech.com/intel-launches-tiger-lake-h-tgl-h-mobil... Intel say they have the fastest single threaded performance of any laptop processor. They show a graph of a benchmark of something called SPECRATE * 2017_int_base compiled with the Intel compiler. Does the Intel compiler still hamstring AMD? Also is this benchmark useful in real world usage?

1. Hamstring might not be fair to "Intel Compiler" , as it was designed for Intel in the first place. Unfair Comparison would be a more valid description. i.e The problem is not with "Intel's compiler", the problem is with the benchmarks and marketing. 2. Keep in mind fastest Single Threaded benchmark is still somewhat true considering Intel can turbo up to 5Ghz. 3. TDP comparison between AMD and Intel are meaningles…

By "hamstring" they mean things that the Intel Compiler did get caught doing, like run the code badly if the CPUID did not say "genuine intel."

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#48

Post by unnah »

Macha wrote: post #35
awiesenhofer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I can totally believe Intel doing it for that reason alone - Isn't Intel only buying 7nm capacity while AMD is already moving to 5nm?

No, Apple have exclusivity on TSMC 5nm currently

The news back in September was that Apple had exclusivity on TSMC 5nm to the end of last year: https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20200917PD210.html

It seems that this year Apple has only secured 80% of TSMC 5nm production: https://wccftech.com/apple-secured-80-tsmc-5nm-production-ca...

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#49

Post by jagger27 »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #31

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tough-times-ahead-for-Intel-in... these new chip is based on 10nm. this article say "Intel's current 10 nm yields are nowhere near viable for “full production”" that's from 4 weeks ago. did Intel fix their yields problem in 4 weeks?

It's totally possible they've been churning this chip out for months already and just stockpiling what they can squeeze out of it.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#50

Post by bserge »

reader_mode wrote: post #22
Jonnax wrote: post #16

From this article: https://wccftech.com/intel-launches-tiger-lake-h-tgl-h-mobil... Intel say they have the fastest single threaded performance of any laptop processor. They show a graph of a benchmark of something called SPECRATE * 2017_int_base compiled with the Intel compiler. Does the Intel compiler still hamstring AMD? Also is this benchmark useful in real world usage?

Does it really matter in a 45W power range ? I have a 2018 15 MBP with an i9-8950HK that has the same power range - this thing is unusable at full load for anything but burst - and the way it taxes the thermals makes it a terrible laptop (people in the office start turning their heads). I'm not convinced any portable laptop can handle that TDP efficiently - so maybe this is interesting for gaming laptops - but to me…

It's the heatsink. And Apple isn't the only offender. All major manufacturers use terrible cooling systems, even on thick workstation class laptops. Their testing is seriously flawed, they design the heatsink for "normal workload" which means jack shit.

Everyone's got different uses for their machines, so just test the heatsink at maximum load/TDP for several hours at least, make sure it doesn't overheat. Is that too much to ask?

And if you design your laptops to be thin and light, don't shove a 6 core 45W processor in it... just don't. It will perform slower than a 4 core 35W chip, so what's the point? Having it on the spec sheet is not worth the negative feedback from buyers.

Apple went the other way with the M1, it doesn't overheat because it just uses much less power, while having the same performance. Really impressive.

You can fix the overheating problem by buying some good thermal paste and applying it yourself and/or by using software like Throttlestop to limit the maximum TDP (and even undervolt it to claw back some of that performance) and NotebookFanControl for the fans. Not sure if there are alternatives for the MacBook, though.

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