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Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

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Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#181

Sorry if this is a stupid question, and I'm sure this is very positive news. But one question I didn't find an answer to in the press release: what's the value of using mRNA for flu vaccine? Will it result in a safer or more effective vaccine? Be cheaper and easier to produce? Something else? I (mostly) understand the mRNA process, just curious about why it'd be superior.

From what I understand, it gives more control over the immune trigger. Perhaps it's possible to sequence a small part that's common to many flu viruses and administer that?

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#182

Sorry if this is a stupid question, and I'm sure this is very positive news. But one question I didn't find an answer to in the press release: what's the value of using mRNA for flu vaccine? Will it result in a safer or more effective vaccine? Be cheaper and easier to produce? Something else? I (mostly) understand the mRNA process, just curious about why it'd be superior.

Not a stupid question

You don't have to mess around with proteins.

Producing a new protein and especially purifying it is a ton of work. mRNA is comparatively simple to produce

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see it going full steam ahead, myself, for a few reasons: 1) Do both, for additional safety. 2) PrEP has changed formulations, and may change again. This implies that the previous formulations were not completely optimal. 3) From what I understand, PrEP can be expensive, although your insurance may cover it. You can also get it overseas for much less but many are not comfortable with that. 4) It's a lifetime ex…

The problem with “do both”: if you give your control group PrEP, then you won’t be able to get data to support the vaccine’s efficacy. A trial requires enough infections in the control group to show the vaccine is better.

Drugs are controlled against the alternative treatment often enough. The study needs to be designed differently, but statistics can do this.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#184

Sorry if this is a stupid question, and I'm sure this is very positive news. But one question I didn't find an answer to in the press release: what's the value of using mRNA for flu vaccine? Will it result in a safer or more effective vaccine? Be cheaper and easier to produce? Something else? I (mostly) understand the mRNA process, just curious about why it'd be superior.

Safer, yes. (No interaction with the nucleus, very simple and straightforward conceptually, plus a few engineering tricks to make it amazingly effective: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source... )

Cheaper, well, it depends. (Vaccines are already cheap, especially because they are mass produced.)

But I'm guessing - but I'm a total layman - that Moderna is betting big on their mRNA platform. The "beauty" of it is that you really need to just copy-paste some part of the virus (pick protein from the viral genome), and literally just paste it into their vaccine deliver platform. (See the link.) And this means R&D costs could go waaaaay down.

Sure, clinical trials are still needed to make sure it's safe and effective, but now they have a very good choice of nailing it on the first try, every try. (Basically unless they pick a wrong protein, it will work "every time". And it's already possible to get antibodies from folks who have "seroconverted" - that is they have become immune to something, because they have the antibodies against that thing. So, they sample a lot of people, look at what the human immune system did, and just pick the most common/stable protein target.)

The flu virus is problematic because it evolves/mutates fast, so old antibodies might not fit the new proteins. Yeah, sounds crazy, but some (!) small mutations lead to still functioning but sufficiently different proteins. (Of course we don't really see all the mutations that led to non-functioning proteins.)

It's also possible - super total speculation here - that the scientists/professionals/experts have a better guess on what to target than our immune system. (Relevant buzzwords: immunodominant / conserved epitope; epitope is the part of the target protein that the antibody/T-cell/B-cell actually matches/binds-to , and if the virus changes that part, boom, new virus, "doesn't look like anything to me", for example in case of HIV: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21115730/ )

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#185
post #2

Didn't Moderna already announce the seasonal flu vaccine programs on the research presentation day? Anyways, I really hope them to succeed, my mother didn't take the flu vaccine ,,because it's risky and not that useful anyways''. Moderna can make it much more efficient with less side effects, so I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, from the article you can see they have been working on this flu vaccine since 2019 - before covid. They haven't had as much money, so it takes longer.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is my understanding correct that a virus so deadly would quickly peter out because it kills its hosts before it can spread?

That's my understanding as well. The problem, though, is that the virus doesn't completely peter out because it survives in the bats. There is a possibility a mutation makes the virus less lethal, in which case it could cause much more problems when it jumps again from bat to human. Maybe next year, maybe in a hundred years, maybe never. Disclaimer: I'm absolutely no expert. The above is only my best guess.

It probably could also mutate in a way that it would be just as lethal, but with a longer incubation period.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIV is one of the three new programs in this announcement. So yes, that's precisely what they're hoping. (Pedantry: HIV is the virus that causes the disease AIDS. The goal is to prevent AIDS by vaccinating against HIV. It's unlikely that the vaccine would be able to help patients who already have AIDS.)

damn I have a habit of only reading HN comments and guessing what the article is about

It is slightly odd that the headline doesn't feature HIV more prominently, since this is a press release. PR puffery would call for a headline more like "We cured COVID and now we're going to cure Flu and AIDS (and another thing you've never heard of)."

Props for modesty, I guess, but this is a weird instance to suddenly get coy.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#188
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And could you blame people for being paranoid when the CIA have used vaccine programs for various purposes in the past. Though they've apparently now stopped.

I assume you are referring to the time the CIA co-opted an immunisation programme as part of the hunt for Bin Laden. I don't think anyone has ever seriously suggested that the CIA has tampered with the vaccines. They merely co-opted the inoculation process in order to gain a biological sample.

> I don't think anyone has ever seriously suggested that the CIA has tampered with the vaccines. They merely co-opted the inoculation process in order to gain a biological sample.

Its not about CIA tampering with the vaccines. The assumption was that the vaccination programs were politically neutral, a system meant to better humanity regardless of politics or military targets etc etc and in many places, that's what was said to convince people on the ground.

Unfortunately, the use of a doctor to aid in information gathering for the CIA in a vaccination campaign means that that assumption is completely gone.

The context is that the Pakistan and Afghanistan border region is the only place in the world where polio still spreads, while the rest of the world it has been eradicated.

However, there is already suspicion due to lack of education and literacy that the vaccine is some sort of Western plot. So all this did was ensure that there continue to be attacks on polio and other vaccination workers in the area by 1. terrorist groups which was happening anyway, but 2. by uneducated paranoid people who think that the vaccine has been the "plot" of the western governments to do something bad to them.

All in all, the CIAs use of a charity organisation and a vaccination drive as a front for its activities has basically led to hundreds being affected by polio, unable to live their lives in good health or even in death.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#189

(Caveat: amateur opinion based on mainstream broad understanding, not an actual scientist.) This is interesting, but so far a weak first step on flu. Each year experts stare at numbers and perhaps read some tea leaves to choose 4 strains to cover, often missing somewhat. The innovation I'd like to see: ignore the "choose 4" process, and instead aim to cover all known strains.

The experts are not randomly choosing strains. A few years ago it was 3 strains, they recently added a 4th. They could add a 5th next year, or drop back down to 3 depending on what they are seeing actually happen.

The real problem they have is the flu mutates. They know what strains they see now and can add them all easily enough. In the few months between deciding on strains and manufacturing them the flu can mutate to some new strain that wasn't even seen before.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#190
post #2

Didn't Moderna already announce the seasonal flu vaccine programs on the research presentation day? Anyways, I really hope them to succeed, my mother didn't take the flu vaccine ,,because it's risky and not that useful anyways''. Moderna can make it much more efficient with less side effects, so I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, from the article you can see they have been working on this flu vaccine since 2019 - before covid. They haven't had as much money, so it takes longer.

Yeah, I guess now they can get infinite amount of money, so what matters is the amount of money they can spend efficiently.
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