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Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

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Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#121

Post by falcor84 »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #49
cwyers wrote: post #37

The name alludes to the Ship of Theseus, a thought experiment where, over the course of many repairs, every piece of a ship is eventually replaced. Given that, I found it interesting that this is applied to a novel greenfield OS effort, instead of a project to rewrite an existing OS in Rust piece-by-piece.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

Being man-made doesn't make identity any less real. As a particular example, there's a big semantic difference in Python between `foo is bar` and `foo == bar`, with the former based on the interpreter's memory allocation and the latter allowing a custom class to decide its own answer. And the former is actually really implementation-dependent, with the following being True in cpython for any integer in the range [-5, 256]:

`a = 257; b = a*1; a is b`

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#122

Post by tpoacher »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #82
tpoacher wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys realize you're simply arguing about preferred definitions of the word, right? Here, let me join the party. I disagree with both of you, because mathematically it should be the case that applying "identity" to x should yield back x for all x.

I would say it is worth to have a conversation about definitions of words. Having your definitions straight is a huge chunk of being able to think properly, and thus to act in the world in the way that we truly want.

I agree. But this isn't what this is. This is a conversation AROUND definitions, not ABOUT them.

In fact, it is surprising how many arguments (online or otherwise) degrade onto "according to my preferred definition of X" once you nitpick them, revealing that there is no actual argument behind the conversation beyond the "I prefer this definition" one.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#125

Post by webmaven »

Igelau wrote: post #112
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. And they are, and they might help you, but trying to ask scientific or metaphysical quæstions about it, is an exercise in futility. > BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "…

> a meaningful, rigorous distinction between “same identity” an “different identity” — I reject that I reject that? No I don't. I need to stop putting words in I's mouth.

> I reject that? No I don't. I need to stop putting words in I's mouth.

This_unit rejects the arbitrary conflation between this_unit and I.

This_unit similarly rejects arbitrary distinctions made, between this_unit and I.

This_unit seeks rigorous, canonical definitions to resolve distinctions and conflations deterministically.

This_unit notes the prior substitution of æ for e, and proposes the use of ə (aka schwa) to confuse matters further.

This_unit is probably joking.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#126

Post by monocasa »

pjmlp wrote: post #96
monocasa wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "all major OSes were human lives are at risk". INTEGRITY is a fairly minor player.

Not when human lives are at risk.

Yes, when human lives are at risk.

Unless you want to give a citation about it's market share.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#127

Post by monocasa »

pjmlp wrote: post #97
monocasa wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

z/OS is a full blown, certified UNIX. WSL1 makes NT a unix kernel if they wanted to get the certification. And redox goes beyond them in that the only user mode env it supports is posix with some extensions. But how is this line germane to the original point again? That somehow being a microkernel means that it can't be a unix like design OS?

Certified UNIX means having a userspace POSIX library, completely unrelated to kernel architectures. So if Microsoft bothers to certify WSL2 then Windows is now UNIX?!?

Since you ignored my question, I'll ask it again.

> But how is this line germane to the original point again? That somehow being a microkernel means that it can't be a unix like design OS?

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#129

Post by Rexxar »

worik wrote: post #30
rubiquity wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s being written in Rust in the year 2021.

That is a very weak definition of "modern"

That's the original and etymological definition of the word. We are used to progress so we see modern thing as better but modern things are just new or trendy not necessary better. Programming everything in javascript is quite modern but is it a progress ? We will see in the long run.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#130

Post by pjmlp »

monocasa wrote: post #127
pjmlp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certified UNIX means having a userspace POSIX library, completely unrelated to kernel architectures. So if Microsoft bothers to certify WSL2 then Windows is now UNIX?!?

Since you ignored my question, I'll ask it again. > But how is this line germane to the original point again? That somehow being a microkernel means that it can't be a unix like design OS?

Please provide an example of an UNIX descendant from Bell Labs implemented microkernel.

POSIX userspace doesn't count, by that measure even an Amiga OS is sundenly an UNIX kernel.

Also a reference CS book in UNIX microkernels architecture would be welcomed.

Even Tanebaum doesn't call Minix 3 a UNIX, rather UNIX inspired.

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