Related: a YouTube channel with lots of small videos highlighting small parts of Dutch (cycling) infrastructure that save lives. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A
What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
41–50 of 70 posts
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#42Sometimes on fora I encounter pretty hostile attitudes towards bikes/bikers in the US, things like: They claim the road! They are dangerous! They claim the pavement! And I'm looking at the movies and pictures thinking, but where else can they be? In the Netherlands everybody is a biker at least some of the time and a driver at other times. A hostile attitude towards a biker is just simply very weird to see and read a…
I once read something similar about France. Most young people will start by cycling to see friends and get about, change to a moped when they have the money, and then one day maybe have a car. So when you see a cyclist they are very much 'you' and not 'other' - there is also great support of the French cycling team and local teams, so there is a feeling of pride when you see cyclist out.
I can only speak for the UK, people certainly see you (on a bike) as something that is impeding their journey, rather than a fellow human getting to work/out to enjoy the location.
I've been told so many times that I don't pay for the roads (I do) and that I'm slowing them down - in London while you might overtake a cyclist they will certainly catch you up at the next light.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible. I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in…
At a busy time, the average stationsfietsenstalling is overfull and has -500 places, so that's why people complain :)
Of course! In London, it can just be expected that there is not anywhere appropriate to park. And, nobody cares to do anything about this, so it seems futile to complain.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
At least in the UK, it would be very abnormal to either let your 6 year old child cycle to school, or to let them walk unaccompanied. Let alone both. Only when children reach about 11 would it be normal to allow them to travel unaccompanied.
When I was a kid in Ireland in the 80s, we'd walk to the village school unaccompanied. A five or ten minute walk at most, kids from the age of 6 at least, though the fact that all the kids are going means the roads weren't exactly empty of kids going to the same school.
UK 80s kid here - I walked to school with the 2 girls across the road from me. From Junior 1 (7 turning 8yo) we'd walk to and from school alone, 20 min walk each way.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it soothly bizarre. How do they attend school? they are driven to it? I said this in another comment, but I find Anglo-Saxon culture to unduly assume that children are completely incompetent. https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/living/mom-arrested-left-... At least there is a debate here. I was left alone to play unsupervised at ages around four or five to no ill effect. What exactly do they believe could happe…
> How do they attend school? they are driven to it? Yes. An extreme example: https://mobile.twitter.com/fietsprofessor/status/12757189152...
No helicopters? I am disappoint.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is truly unsafe to take a bicycle in the U.K.?
Depends where you are. London is starting to get some good cycling lanes and some junctions are having traffic rerouted to make it safer for cyclists. Sadly in many other places cycling only really works for confident riders. Lots of drivers are either unaware of cyclists or downright aggressive. I would have near misses on a weekly basis. Things are getting better but very slowly.
And in our other cities it's still way cheaper (and socially acceptable) to drive in from the suburbs and park.
There are car parks literally 200m from the centre of Birmingham where you can park all day for less than 10 pounds, and cheaper still nearby.
Things are starting to change (oddly during COVID) by addition of bus gates, but they're making very slow progress. We've already delayed and diluted our congestion charge multiple times.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#47I remember seeing this video some years ago and, as a Dutchman, was astounded how much I learned about the Dutch way of treating cyclists. It just seems so obvious and normal when you grow up in it. I started biking to school at age 6. No helmet, no parent accompanying. So did all my friends. Later, I had shitty jobs in far flung industrial areas. All had proper bike lanes. The list goes on. Remember though, as the v…
Reading this comment, this is also the first time I realize that this is not normal. It is unusual globally for six year olds to cycle to school?
It was normal in the US in the 70s and 80s for young children to walk (and maybe bike) to school. Definitely not normal now unless they are being escorted by a parent or babysitter. A lot depends on where the school is sited relative to the students' homes and the trend in the US is for schools to be on very large lots and surrounded by parking lots.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#48Sometimes on fora I encounter pretty hostile attitudes towards bikes/bikers in the US, things like: They claim the road! They are dangerous! They claim the pavement! And I'm looking at the movies and pictures thinking, but where else can they be? In the Netherlands everybody is a biker at least some of the time and a driver at other times. A hostile attitude towards a biker is just simply very weird to see and read a…
This attitude towards cyclists is somewhat universal outside a few cycling-friendly countries, it is not US specific by any means.
Cyclists are always seen as a nuisance, since they block the road for the "real" traffic. Cycling lanes are also somewhat rare outside the Netherlands and Denmark, so bikes and cars almost always share the road.
I have a particular pet peeve, which is the term "cycling city". I see it everywhere because it is sexy to proclaim that bikes are on your priority list as mayor/government. As an example, in Manchester (UK) the mayor has proclaimed that Manchester will be a cycling city, yet bike lanes are rarely included in new projects. There was a redevelopment for one of the larger streets in Manchester, obviously without _any_ consideration for bikes.
If you want cycling cities, there are a few scattered around Europe, but nothing compared to the Netherlands and Denmark. The rest is just bs.
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#49Sometimes on fora I encounter pretty hostile attitudes towards bikes/bikers in the US, things like: They claim the road! They are dangerous! They claim the pavement! And I'm looking at the movies and pictures thinking, but where else can they be? In the Netherlands everybody is a biker at least some of the time and a driver at other times. A hostile attitude towards a biker is just simply very weird to see and read a…
A great insight in this from a Canadian in Amsterdam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMed1qceJ_Q
Wow, great insight indeed! I do feel really afraid to ever ride my bike with my Dutch attitude outside the Netherlands now, especially without a helmet as everybody normally does here... Wow, "punishment passes", how inhuman!
Edit: I looked into it a bit more, apparently videos of our prime-minster on his bike went viral! [0], how funny for such a normal thing. The dutch comments are pretty telling indeed:
- "Up next: Karel (56) bumped his toe"
- "Wow, he's almost like a real human, right?"
Re: What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design?
#50I must say that I find it rather odd that apparently it is “phænomenal” that 25% of all trips are by bike. What other means of transportation would one use for short distances where a bike is simply faster than a car due to ease of parking? Personally, however, I use a skateboard fitted with 100 mm all terrain wheels for even greater ease of parking.
I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible. I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in…
> I wanted to argue against the 'Europeans are supercilious' comment, but this comment doesn't help. Dutch people do know that the extent of their bike lanes and infrastructure is incredible.
Yet you will find many Dutchmen in this thread, including the comment you're replying to, that express that this is the first time in their lives they've given it thought.
> I've only seen the new 'megafietsenstalling' at Den Haag Centraal train station complained about because 8000 bike parking spaces was not ambitious enough and is not expected to be enough space. And yet, it's the second largest in the world after Utrecht (also in the Netherlands).
One of the many reasons I favor the skateboard over the bicycle — it joins me in the train.
> At a comparable train station in London, you would be lucky to find 10 bike parking spaces.
Well I have never been at a London train station. I've been at Belgian, German, and French ones, and I did not notice any particular difference that stood out.