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Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

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Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#151
post #48

Could be these guys - they are publicly advertising Chicago to Europe data link via HF radio (for traders, of course): https://www.raft-tech.com/

Indeed, the Bloomberg article they link to shows a photo of antenna towers in Aurora, Illinois near the Chicago Mercantile Exchange datacenter

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/companies...

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#152
post #26

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see the whole HFT industry be deleted. What a waste of human intellect.

Arbitrage is good actually. Tigher spreads make transactions cheaper and safer for the smaller players.

Can we quantify how much advantage we get as retail investors? And how does it compare to the billions spent on dedicated networking, radio gimmickry, and specialized hardware and software magic, plus the opportunity cost of pulling all that talent and capacity from other industries?

If every trade settled at, say, the rolling average price of the last 60 seconds-- or 60 minutes-- it would dramatically quiet the "noise" in the market. There would still be enough demand from conventional investors, and the averaging policy could actually stabilize the riskiest scenarios (i. e. a temporary loss of market makers causing orders to settle at comically out-of-bound prices)

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much time does encryption take? I'd wager the fastest links are close to plaintext.

Stream ciphers can operate without adding any extra delay and are considered plenty strong.

At HF bitrates they can use a one-time pad. The only unbreakable cipher.

A single hard drive shipped (or hand-delivered) to each transmitter location ought to last a decade.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#154
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One does not need a lot of bandwidth to trade successfully. In fact, a limited number of signals agreed upon ahead of time is enough. E.g. signal “A” could mean “buy 10 contracts”, signal “B” - “sell 100 contracts”, etc. And you can of course wrap 256 such signals into one byte. So transmitting a single byte at an opportune time let’s you control your trading on the other continent in a quite precise fashion. If you…

All you really need to do is to beat the trade you just saw enter the system so you can buy the trade out from under them and mark it up while their bits are still stuck in glass. You know, "provide liquidity".

Heh. Yeah I have no idea why everybody who isn't doing HFT hasn't decided to stop letting these guys rip them off and moved to

    investor sex change
er, sorry, put the spaces in the wrong place there, I meant:

    investors exchange
They basically encoded a bunch of HFT-thwarting principles into their clearing policies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investors_Exchange#Operating_p...

It's a great idea. But every time I see that name I can't keep my brain from moving the spaces around. I mean seriously what were they thinking with that name.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#155
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arbitrage is good actually. Tigher spreads make transactions cheaper and safer for the smaller players.

Can we quantify how much advantage we get as retail investors? And how does it compare to the billions spent on dedicated networking, radio gimmickry, and specialized hardware and software magic, plus the opportunity cost of pulling all that talent and capacity from other industries? If every trade settled at, say, the rolling average price of the last 60 seconds-- or 60 minutes-- it would dramatically quiet the "noi…

High speed trading is an effective route to achieve that policy as it reduces the need to keep resources tied up in market making, an activity that requires compensation.

Any other method to force a uniform price, i.e. a price that cannot quickly change in response to information, creates arbitrage opportunities that are greatly unfavorable to retail investors.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#156
post #85

This reminds me of the first ever "hack" that used semaphores (not the ones you're thinking of): https://www.amusingplanet.com/2019/03/the-worlds-first-cyber...

Hacking the semaphores is also plot device in "Count of Monte Cristo" causing the financial ruin of a villain.

I wonder if Dumas was inspired by Blanc brothers.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#157

Morality and outrage aside, we know where they are, and the format they are using, and they are in a fixed site. The real question is: How can we: 1> receive and regenerate the source bit stream 2> use that to exactly recreate the transmitted signal 3> synchronized with that signal, and 4> then use it to cancel out the interference?

To clarify... I'm not proposing to jam the signal, just cancel it out (in the receive channel) so we can listen without the annoyance.

With SDR gear, it should be possible to null out most, if not all of the signal, once the modulation format is known.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you really need to do is to beat the trade you just saw enter the system so you can buy the trade out from under them and mark it up while their bits are still stuck in glass. You know, "provide liquidity".

Heh. Yeah I have no idea why everybody who isn't doing HFT hasn't decided to stop letting these guys rip them off and moved to investor sex change er, sorry, put the spaces in the wrong place there, I meant: investors exchange They basically encoded a bunch of HFT-thwarting principles into their clearing policies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investors_Exchange#Operating_p... It's a great idea. But every time I see…

Yeah, why? Maybe because HFT actually do provide a service valuable to retail.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not at all how it works.

If not why do they need to have the lowest latency? Seems to me that if you want to provide liquidity what you need to do is buy a wide range of stocks and sit on them so they're all listed and available for trade. But you don't need extremely low latency for that. If you're providing liquidity you should be sitting on an insanely diverse portfolio at the end of every day. The whole point is to make sure trades are a…

When trading on exchanges no one can see your order before it makes it to the exchange, it’s literally a private connection directly to the exchange.

Once your order hits the exchange 1 of 2 things can happen, your order can trade (that is it immediately clears) and all participants get an update which shows the new state of the exchange (the previous state minus whichever order(s) your order matched against). Or your order doesn’t trade, it “rests” because your price doesn’t match what anyone else is offering. At that point your order is at the back of the queue at that price and all other participants get an update showing the new state of the market with your order added to the state.

So why is latency important? The most important reason is not adding orders, which is only important if no one is already quoting your price, it’s for cancelling orders. If you get some information that makes you think your orders are incorrectly priced you want to cancel them before anyone can take advantage of that and then get new orders in at the new price you think is correct. This information is either off exchange (e.g. the fed job report) or is on the current exchange or another similar one (e.g. some big hedge fund is selling a ton of Swiss Francs in European exchanges).

On the map in the article exist 2 exchanges, the CME and the ICE which trade different but highly correlated symbols (CME WTI oil and ICE Brent oil). If I see a price change on the CME for those correlated symbols I can bet with high confidence the price will change for the ICE symbols as well, so I’ll race to cancel my orders that don’t reflect that new anticipated price.

For market makers providing liquidity order management is as important if not more so than inventory management and that’s where speed reduces risk, allowing them to provide cheaper liquidity.

A market maker wants to end the day flat on inventory with well positioned orders. Holding a big portfolio of inventory is the worst case scenario.

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