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Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

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Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, they don't, but we owe ourselves that so we should submit with that info.

That's not what the site guidelines say... "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." Use the original titles.

I would argue that the "Real or Fake?" part is clickbait-y, and the poster could have rewritten it to answer the question.

This has come up before, and titles have been rewritten accordingly.

Me? Title like that, I just skip to the comments, there's always someone at the top to sort me out.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#52
post #35
post #28

But there’s still a security flaw in this method. If somebody from Amazon will decide to record you, they just send a reboot command to Echo. After reboot mic’s state will be changed back to normal I.e. powered.

From using an echo at home, the unmuted state is only during the bootup process during which there's no processing or recording of audio going on anyway. If it shutdown muted mine starts up muted, even if the power cord is removed.

Is this the Echo Flex? The pictured schematic appears to disallow software re-muting.

Otherwise, all this hardware protection is moot (mute? ;), because you can listen for a few seconds, and then turn the mute light back on.

Or you can even toggle them back and forth really quick, and turn the light half on and keep the microphone's power pin capacitor charged.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#53
post #28

But there’s still a security flaw in this method. If somebody from Amazon will decide to record you, they just send a reboot command to Echo. After reboot mic’s state will be changed back to normal I.e. powered.

Yes, but at least this turns the light off and the light is stuck off (and can't be turned back on by software even if they decide to stop listening).

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#54
post #28

But there’s still a security flaw in this method. If somebody from Amazon will decide to record you, they just send a reboot command to Echo. After reboot mic’s state will be changed back to normal I.e. powered.

in the same vein, what about the overlooked 1mm x 1mm chip that holds logic such as {{ if red_led==active then pushAudio('udp://amazon.com/jeffsBathroomSpeaker') }}

Considering the countless chips on most standard SoCs this is the correct answer. And presumably what the NSA does when they reroute your Dell or MacBook for an overnight session in a sealed off room at the post office.

Doesn’t even need to be at Amazon’s factory in China of where ever. But that is largely feasible too.

The difficulty is more about data exfiltration. Has to be appended to some real ‘normal’ request the next time a legitimate use of the mic is made, then piggybacks uploads on that connection.

Recording all times when a voice is heard would also massively increase the payload sent to the server. If you were just passively network monitoring it could stick out. Which is not something nation states want.

Forget these smart home mics, if I was a nation state I’d just stick with the mobile phones and laptops every person uses.

People are already paranoid about their Alexas inherently (and far more likely to potentially care to look) making them a poor target for hacking. It’s far more useful to turn the thing they carry around with them 24/7 into an active microphone with GPS, and plenty of more exfiltration possibilities with any mobile and desktop OS network traffic.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#56
post #28

But there’s still a security flaw in this method. If somebody from Amazon will decide to record you, they just send a reboot command to Echo. After reboot mic’s state will be changed back to normal I.e. powered.

in the same vein, what about the overlooked 1mm x 1mm chip that holds logic such as {{ if red_led==active then pushAudio('udp://amazon.com/jeffsBathroomSpeaker') }}

Unless it has a microphone itself, that's difficult, because the actual microphone is depowered.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#57

All cameras should also have this.

IIRC Apple hardwires camera LED to enable pin for some time now. You can't even disable the LED even if you tamper with the camera firmware.

Old Logitech Pro 9000 is the exact opposite. You can control the LED independently of the camera state.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#58
post #15

Disclosure: I'm an Amazon Devices PE, but not on Alexa devices. Jeff (and others) have spoken publicly about this in the past, and this teardown is correct. The hardware is designed such that, if the privacy LED is on, the microphone is unpowered. In order to compromise that, one would need to physically alter/damage the hardware.

Do you know if the same is true of the microphone button on the FireStick remote? Been debating with myself whether to remove the mic from it.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#59
post #53
post #28

But there’s still a security flaw in this method. If somebody from Amazon will decide to record you, they just send a reboot command to Echo. After reboot mic’s state will be changed back to normal I.e. powered.

Yes, but at least this turns the light off and the light is stuck off (and can't be turned back on by software even if they decide to stop listening).

Sure but it's still a bad design. If the device ever loses power, or restarts for any reason while the mute is engaged an informed user must accept a non-zero probability that their privacy was invaded.

I have wireless headphones that work like this and it's a terrible design. If they go out of range temporarily, they unmute. It makes the 'hardware' mute functionality absolutely useless since it cannot be relied upon to stay muted.

Re: Amazon Echo Flex: Microphone mute button appears to be real and functional

#60

The parallel flops are probably hardening against bit flips from ESD events. There aren't any other active protection devices and phantom flips probably showed up at some point during testing of earlier prototypes.

I'm honestly surprised they went that far, and happy they did.

I think accidental unmuting due to random events would translate into “theyare listening to me” in their average customer’s mind, and would be a pr disaster. Compare the cost of that to an extra component, and the surprise goes away.
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