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Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

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Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is well known that an educated, free people are necessary for the functioning of democracy. It's part of the justification for the 1st Amendment. We have new technologies which are being leveraged to intentionally misinform people, in a society that has degraded public education and raised the cost of higher education to levels prohibitive for the majority of the population, and as a result, the society (as a whol…

People are more educated than ever. They are more literate and more have attended at least some college. They also have more access to information than ever before. Either lack of education isn't the problem or it's an impossible standard.

I think it could also be the type of information being taught. If people aren't learning about biases, fallacies, basic logic, etc, then it can be easy for people to fall victim to false information. In that sort of scenario, more access to information could be more dangerous.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are more educated than ever. They are more literate and more have attended at least some college. They also have more access to information than ever before. Either lack of education isn't the problem or it's an impossible standard.

I agree that people are more educated than ever. And more literate. And more college educated. However, they are not more educated on the topics related to the context of this discussion, like how to filter what's seen on social media, or how the government actually works, or economic systems, or most of the things political discussions are made from. Those topics aren't taught effectively in school anymore, at least…

Looks like we commented at the same time.

Are we even allowed to have political discussions at school? It seems like it isn't allowed in primary and secondary schools.

Even at the college level it seems that minority opinion holders are basically shamed into being quiet or are dismissed as unintelligent when it comes to the biggest issues.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#403
post #289
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shadow banning is some real underhanded sh#t. On reddit I explained that mayor Pete's M4A wasn't the same M4A as the world understood it. A user immediately responds accusing of me editing my comment to deceive. I say prove it you f#cking liar, there are services that archive. Then I'm hit with the ban for being profane and harassing. Yup, turns out the comment had been very quickly shadow-banned lol. I should have k…

People who use profanity and personal insults tend to heavily degrade the quality of a forum. And when banned, they react angrily and make alternate accounts again and again. A shadowban reduces the incentive to dodge bans via new usernames. Reddit mods don’t have Ip address access or other tools, so shadowbans are a necessary tool. You weren’t banned for speaking contrary to the mainstream. You were banned for insul…

Is it true that a very active participant on Reddit was shadow banned a while back, and he didn't realize it for two years?

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#404
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, one of the "terrorists" (an unarmed woman) was shot to death by a cop. Yes she was trespassing but he used excessive force. I've watched the videos. Try again.

She was leading a mob into the area where the VP and other important persons were sheltering. That is treasonous. Calling it trespassing is not accurate.

How is it more treasonous than a mob of a couple thousand people laying siege to the federal building in Portland for days, at one point barricading the entrance and trying to set it on fire, with employees inside?

As recently as January 1, a mob was hurling Molotov cocktails at the federal courthouse.

I don't recall any political leaders expressing anger and disgust over that.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#405
post #161

Are we really so stupid that we cannot see through this kind of thing and need to actively censor it to have civilized society continue to function? When do we just give up on democracy completely?

Simply propagating the meme could put Facebook at risk for providing aid or comfort to an insurrection.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a lot of pearl clutching about chaz and other BLM violence as well. So were they terrorists?

Depends on who you ask. The right-wing media called them terrorists. And since conservatives claim to be "half the country", we can safely say that half the country agreed with that sentiment. I will say that none of them attacked the Capitol to overturn a fair election after being egged on by a sitting president based on a lie that every relevant court in the land has thrown out as utter nonsense. This particular in…

Nonsense. It'll be forgotten a month from now.

More people are shot to death on a peaceful weekend in Chicago, and nobody even talks about it.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chronology of that association doesn’t work. Democrats were staunch opponents of civil rights until the 1960s. Even then, more republicans supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than Democrats. Even in 1976, Carter won with the traditional new deal coalition of southerners and northeast progressives. He won South Carolina by the same margin as Massachusetts. Even in 1980 against Reagan, Carter performed much clos…

All chronologies of the 2 major parties in the US are flawed because the parties spent the 20th century switching their positions. The exodus of southern racists from the Democratic party in the mid-century controls almost all the polarization in our politics. Reagan gets a lot of blame for being at the helm during the rise of the moral majority, but if you read Perlstein, the coalition Reagan was backed by has its r…

There are broad features of the parties that haven't changed that are necessary to understand the timeline of southern realignment.

Republicans had been trying to win southern whites since the turn of the 20th century. That caused a large number of African Americans to abandon the party. They started voting overwhelmingly Democrat in 1936.

But the Democratic Party didn't support the Civil Rights Act until 1964. And the south remained solidly Democratic well into the 1980s, outside of Presidential contests. Many completely white rural southern counties voted for Carter and Clinton. What explains that timeline?

You have to look at the economics and the law. FDR's Democratic Party was recognizably modern: technocratic, and proponents of the administrative state, regulation, and economic redistribution. Southern whites stayed in this coalition because the south was poor and agrarian, and had interests averse to those of northern businesses. New Deal programs were instrumental in industrializing the southern economy: https://siepr.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/publications/.... In 1930, the southeast was the poorest region, with half the national average income. By 1970, the gap had closed dramatically, to 80%. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/comparing-wealth-u-s-geogra...

The Republican Party, meanwhile, continued to be a small-government, anti-regulation party during this time. Goldwater tried to win the south by opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 on small-government grounds, and while that worked in a few deep-south states, he lost every normally Republican state except Arizona.

By the time Reagan came along, a couple of things had changed:

1) The south's economy had dramatically industrialized, creating prosperous suburbs of the kind Reagan won all over the country.

2) The legal debate over the Civil Rights Act had long since been replaced by debates over affirmative action. The 1980 Republican Platform reflects this:

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/republican-party-p... ("However, equal opportunity should not be jeopardized by bureaucratic regulations and decisions which rely on quotas, ratios, and numerical requirements to exclude some individuals in favor of others, thereby rendering such regulations and decisions inherently discriminatory.").

With the illegality of de jure discrimination settled by Brown v. Board, and commercial discrimination settled by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the debate shifted to addressing what we'd call today "structural racism." And on that point, the Reagan platform reflects the same limited-government Republican ideology that existed since before Hoover. And Democrats' support for government intervention and affirmative action reflected their broader 20th century ideology as well.

FWIW, I happen to side with Democrats on this one, at least with respect to economic interventions. But the parties have more or less the positions you’d expect ideologically.

There is a good book that covers this: https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691133898/th.... It gives a similar but slightly more nuanced take than Pearlstein, which I don't think is wrong, just incomplete and a bit misleading.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on who you ask. The right-wing media called them terrorists. And since conservatives claim to be "half the country", we can safely say that half the country agreed with that sentiment. I will say that none of them attacked the Capitol to overturn a fair election after being egged on by a sitting president based on a lie that every relevant court in the land has thrown out as utter nonsense. This particular in…

Nonsense. It'll be forgotten a month from now. More people are shot to death on a peaceful weekend in Chicago, and nobody even talks about it.

You're either completely ignorant of what historical notability is, or arguing in bad faith. Possibly both.

This particular incident is likely to lead to a record 2nd impeachment of a president. Donald Trump will account for 50% of all US presidential impeachments. That's how rare and historic they are. Are you seriously arguing no one's going to remember it in a month?

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to 1950, the median adult American did not have a high school education.[1] If your thesis is that modern-day Americans are too uneducated for democracy, then you'd have to conclude the same about nearly any point in our history. (Or any other democracy prior to a couple decades ago.) [1] https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93442.pdf

Actually, my thesis isn't that Americans are too uneducated for democracy. It's that they are being manipulated by modern technology, which education in the US has failed to keep up with, resulting in the age of misinformation and "fake news." We live in a new era, the most stark difference being mass communication accessibility. This helps smart people become smarter, but it also helps smart people manipulate uneduc…

Your point makes sense but it's not because of lack of education. Education won't change the natural distribution of intellect and education is often a form of indoctrination as well.

The entire history of civilization is a few cold blooded psychopaths manipulating gullible people into doing whatever is needed.

And if you think one side is better than the other you're on the receiving end too.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All chronologies of the 2 major parties in the US are flawed because the parties spent the 20th century switching their positions. The exodus of southern racists from the Democratic party in the mid-century controls almost all the polarization in our politics. Reagan gets a lot of blame for being at the helm during the rise of the moral majority, but if you read Perlstein, the coalition Reagan was backed by has its r…

There are broad features of the parties that haven't changed that are necessary to understand the timeline of southern realignment. Republicans had been trying to win southern whites since the turn of the 20th century. That caused a large number of African Americans to abandon the party. They started voting overwhelmingly Democrat in 1936. But the Democratic Party didn't support the Civil Rights Act until 1964. And t…

TL;DR version

1) Goldwater’s landslide loss in 1964, winning no Republican states other than his own, proved that opposing the civil rights act of 1964 wasn’t tenable for either party. It’s not like Democrats could have beat Reagan had they opposed it. They would have lost their northern base, just as Goldwater lost the Republican base in 1964.

It’s one factor in the detachment of the south from the Democratic Party, but that detachment had been a long time coming due to economic changes.

2) By 1980, the debate shifted to affirmative action and quotas, where Republicans had a longstanding ideological basis for opposing government intervention.

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