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Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

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Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#1

Post by jmonegro »

I want to get into OS X/iOS development. I'm a rubyist.

Learning MacRuby would be easier for me, but I think I would inevitably transition to Objective-C as I reach its limitations (maybe some advanced stuff, libs, and iOS development).

But, Objective-C/Cocoa from scratch would be much harder for me to get into.

Is there any benefit in learning MacRuby first as a way of conditioning my brain into how Apple development works, or should I dive straight into Objective-C/Cocoa?

This is the learning path I have envisioned:

- Learn MacRuby (books, screencasts, ...) - Learn Objective-C - Learn Cocoa - Learn Cocoa Touch

Is MacRuby a good stepping stone or should I skip it?

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#2

Post by hmottestad »

I don't think you have much of an alternative if you want to make good software for iOS. As for programming for OS X, cocoa has bindings for ruby, so that shouldn't be a problem. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/RubyCocoa

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#3

Post by jmonegro »

hmottestad wrote: post #2

I don't think you have much of an alternative if you want to make good software for iOS. As for programming for OS X, cocoa has bindings for ruby, so that shouldn't be a problem. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/RubyCocoa

Indeed. Even though I know I'll eventually transition to Objective-C, I was wondering if learning MacRuby first would tender down the learning curve by easing me into how Apple development works by leveraging my existing knowledge.

What do you think?

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#4

Post by ddagradi »

hmottestad wrote: post #2

I don't think you have much of an alternative if you want to make good software for iOS. As for programming for OS X, cocoa has bindings for ruby, so that shouldn't be a problem. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/RubyCocoa

RubyCocoa is severely out-of-date. MacRuby is its replacement.

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#5

Post by ddagradi »

For iOS, MacRuby is unfortunately not an option, as it would require garbage collection. However, for writing OS X software, MacRuby works great (we just shipped an app with it in the App Store - http://briquetteapp.com - and it has definitely been a joy to work with).

Unfortunately, it doesn't really make the learning curve any less intense. While Objective-C's syntax and style are somewhat difficult, the real challenge to Mac/iOS programming is having a working knowledge of the Cocoa API. MacRuby simply acts as a bridge between Ruby and Cocoa, meaning you need to know exactly the same amount about API methods no matter the programming language you choose.

Reading the currently available MacRuby book is a great idea - http://ofps.oreilly.com/titles/9781449380373/. If you find yourself confused by the concepts, you should try learning Objective-C and Cocoa first (I learned with http://www.amazon.com/Cocoa-Programming-Mac-OS-3rd/dp/032150...). It is certainly possible to dive in with MacRuby! Just remember that it's not 1.0 yet, and could present technical difficulties in unexpected ways. Otherwise, it's super fun!

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#6

Post by jmonegro »

ddagradi wrote: post #5

For iOS, MacRuby is unfortunately not an option, as it would require garbage collection. However, for writing OS X software, MacRuby works great (we just shipped an app with it in the App Store - http://briquetteapp.com - and it has definitely been a joy to work with). Unfortunately, it doesn't really make the learning curve any less intense. While Objective-C's syntax and style are somewhat difficult, the real chall…

Thanks for your response! Briquette looks great :)

All things considered, it seems like MacRuby might make it's way onto iOS in the future (http://iflipbits.com/post/1101983568/macruby-soon-on-ios, although that's 8 months old, so I'm not really counting on it for now).

Yes, I figured that out after researching enough about obj-c, cocoa, and macruby. That's why I wondered if learning MacRuby first would ease me into the process by taking away a layer of difficulty (obj-c). Then after I get the hang of it, I could transition to objective-c, maybe through one of PeepCode's screencasts, "Objective-C for Rubyists".

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#7

Post by ddagradi »

jmonegro wrote: post #6
ddagradi wrote: post #5

For iOS, MacRuby is unfortunately not an option, as it would require garbage collection. However, for writing OS X software, MacRuby works great (we just shipped an app with it in the App Store - http://briquetteapp.com - and it has definitely been a joy to work with). Unfortunately, it doesn't really make the learning curve any less intense. While Objective-C's syntax and style are somewhat difficult, the real chall…

Thanks for your response! Briquette looks great :) All things considered, it seems like MacRuby might make it's way onto iOS in the future ( http://iflipbits.com/post/1101983568/macruby-soon-on-ios , although that's 8 months old, so I'm not really counting on it for now). Yes, I figured that out after researching enough about obj-c, cocoa, and macruby. That's why I wondered if learning MacRuby first would ease me int…

It's definitely possible to start with MacRuby. It just requires a little more overhead to translate Cocoa documentation into methods that work with MacRuby (not to mention the occasional one that doesn't work right...).

As a Rubyist, there's definitely some differences (named parameters, for instance), but you get the hang of it pretty quick. As a Cocoa developer, debugging with MacRuby has issues, as Xcode doesn't always know about the right symbols since it's not compiled (but this is getting better!).

Use the MacRuby book, and learn to love Xcode's documentation, and you should be good to go. If you do have issues, email the macruby-devel mailing list or visit #macruby - the community is super friendly and happy to help!

re iOS: I'm really hoping. With MacRuby shipping by default with Lion, iOS 5 will hopefully follow suit this summer.

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#8

Post by jmonegro »

ddagradi wrote: post #7
jmonegro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your response! Briquette looks great :) All things considered, it seems like MacRuby might make it's way onto iOS in the future ( http://iflipbits.com/post/1101983568/macruby-soon-on-ios , although that's 8 months old, so I'm not really counting on it for now). Yes, I figured that out after researching enough about obj-c, cocoa, and macruby. That's why I wondered if learning MacRuby first would ease me int…

It's definitely possible to start with MacRuby. It just requires a little more overhead to translate Cocoa documentation into methods that work with MacRuby (not to mention the occasional one that doesn't work right...). As a Rubyist, there's definitely some differences (named parameters, for instance), but you get the hang of it pretty quick. As a Cocoa developer, debugging with MacRuby has issues, as Xcode doesn't…

With what you know, would you recommend I skip MacRuby and jump straight into obj-c/cocoa?

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#9

Post by brandoncordell »

I didn't bother using MacRuby as a stepping stone to Objective-C. Instead I learned C first. I had no experience with compiled languages so I figured it would be my best bet and I definitely think it helped a lot.

It's a little hard to get past Objective-C's syntax at first but after it all begins to click it's not so bad. I think learning the Cocoa API would prove the more difficult step in your learning path.

Re: Ask HN: Getting into OS X/iOS development as a Rubyist: learn macruby first?

#10

Post by hmottestad »

jmonegro wrote: post #3
hmottestad wrote: post #2

I don't think you have much of an alternative if you want to make good software for iOS. As for programming for OS X, cocoa has bindings for ruby, so that shouldn't be a problem. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/RubyCocoa

Indeed. Even though I know I'll eventually transition to Objective-C, I was wondering if learning MacRuby first would tender down the learning curve by easing me into how Apple development works by leveraging my existing knowledge. What do you think?

I would just go for objective-c. MacRuby is in version 0.1 and might be more of a headache to figure out and circumvent bugs and holes then just learning objective-c. It's not a very difficult language and easy enough if you have tried C or Java before. You'll also need to handle memory (allocation and deallocation), but you could try to rely on GC, but not for iOS. Lynda.com has a video tutorial on objective-c and also tutorials on iOS programming.
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