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Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

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Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#241

Post by chordalkeyboard »

dd36 wrote: post #158
chordalkeyboard wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are people who want the government to be replaced by the "free market" allowed to be upset that private companies are silencing them? Because there isn't a free market, but a regulated market and there is a widespread perception (on both the left and the right) that the regulations are tilted in favor of the establishment and oligarchs, and against normal people, workers, consumers, and taxpayers. Furthermore w…

How are these companies regulated?

I don't understand the question. There are statutes that both refer to conduct and delegate power to make rules. Enforcement of these statutes is the responsibility of law enforcement officers.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#242

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

ffggvv wrote: post #123
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #42

im saying this because it seems like such an obvious point but i havent seen it here- why are people who want the government to be replaced by the "free market" allowed to be upset that private companies are silencing them? what is the rationale for squaring this circle

speaking for myself, i’m not dumb and don’t think it’s illegal for them to stop free speech. but i think we are allowed to be upset and criticize it or call for boycotts and condemn them. that’s our free speech. just like if twitter banned any support of lgbt rights i’m sure the left would cry and not just dismiss it as “corporations aren’t held to the first amendment” imo free speech is a human right and corporation…

And everyone else can exercise their freedom of speech by calling out the flaws logical inconsistencies in your criticisms of the content moderation.

> imo free speech is a human right and corporations shouldn’t oppress it even if they legally can. just like they shouldn’t discriminate even if they legally could

Private people and companies are under no obligation to offer their help and services to people who wish to use those services to organize killings or any other crimes. In fact, it's extremely common for businesses to have (and enforce) policies against such use of their products/services, since it's obviously not in their best interest to be viewed by the public as an accessory to crime.

The "stop the steal" and similar posts now being removed under the policy are intended for recruiting people to an upcoming armed escalation of last week's riot and invasion at the Capitol (using the false pretense of election fraud by Democrat officials). Their purpose is to capture or kill anyone standing in the way of their goal to overturn the election result, at some point before inauguration. This isn't conjecture; the posts and the commentary surrounding them have been out there for everyone to see. This was also noted by Twitter in their recent announcement on the suspension of the outgoing president's account.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#243

Post by [deleted] »

dcolkitt wrote: post #238
root_axis wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not a country, it's a website, trying to characterize Facebook's business decisions as U.S policy is a dishonest rhetorical tactic.

Honest question: Is Facebook doing this out of genuine business interest? Or because they're concerned about legal and/or regulatory backlash?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#244

Post by grzm »

dcolkitt wrote: post #238
root_axis wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not a country, it's a website, trying to characterize Facebook's business decisions as U.S policy is a dishonest rhetorical tactic.

Honest question: Is Facebook doing this out of genuine business interest? Or because they're concerned about legal and/or regulatory backlash?

What’s the difference? Business interests include mitigating legal and regulatory exposure.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#245

Post by Gabriel_Martin »

jtbayly wrote: post #211
Gabriel_Martin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many seem to have been completely taken in to it, yes. And given it seems to have lead to deadly consequences already, I don't think it's unreasonable for these companies to consider it a huge liability.

Are you aware of what other things have led to deadly consequences? Communism, socialism, green terrorism, and self driving cars come to mind.

Totally, and then you have unfettered capitalism and corporatism, kakistocracies, oligarchies and lawn darts. Unfortunately, unlike all of those things, the FBI, Homeland Security[1] and Congress [2] actually found that white supremacists and other far-right-wing extremists are the most significant domestic terrorism threat facing the United States.

So, when social networks' legal/liability or moderation teams take action on the precise content that was used to foment a coup, it's not terribly shocking from a legal perspective.

1: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-...

2: https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#246

Post by tim44 »

nostromo wrote: post #36
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #26

Hm, I just posted "stop the steal" on my Facebook page (along with a disclaimer), and it's still there six minutes later. Maybe it takes 24 hours to get picked up? Or do they just cloak the posting?

In most cases you'd be shadow-banned. (The post looks fine to you, but is invisible to everyone else.) Or, they just put their thumbs on the scale and make sure your post isn't shown to anyone (or very few people) rather than your typical audience.

Shadow banning is some real underhanded sh#t. On reddit I explained that mayor Pete's M4A wasn't the same M4A as the world understood it. A user immediately responds accusing of me editing my comment to deceive. I say prove it you f#cking liar, there are services that archive. Then I'm hit with the ban for being profane and harassing. Yup, turns out the comment had been very quickly shadow-banned lol. I should have known. But this might inform people that its not only conservatives who's speech is threatened; it's anyone who speaks contrary to the mainstream.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#247

Post by logicslave »

BurningFrog wrote: post #221

Tell me how this is wrong: The US is de facto converting to the Chinese model for the internet: All communication must be monitored, damaging content must be erased, and in serious cases, those responsible must be punished. If Parler gets a foreign data center, I expect a "Great Firewall of China" with American characteristics will soon follow.

Yup this is coming. The "slippery slope" is real and recent actions confirm it. This is scary and these actions are unprecedented. The USA has never seen such restrictions on free speech in its history

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#248

Post by [deleted] »

BurningFrog wrote: post #221

Tell me how this is wrong: The US is de facto converting to the Chinese model for the internet: All communication must be monitored, damaging content must be erased, and in serious cases, those responsible must be punished. If Parler gets a foreign data center, I expect a "Great Firewall of China" with American characteristics will soon follow.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#249

Post by dcolkitt »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #42

im saying this because it seems like such an obvious point but i havent seen it here- why are people who want the government to be replaced by the "free market" allowed to be upset that private companies are silencing them? what is the rationale for squaring this circle

Last night I tried takeout from a new restaurant in town. The food was awful, the food late, the order wrong and the prices way too high.

My hoped-for solution isn't for the government to step in and fix the problem. ("There oughta be a law!") It's for the company to be replaced by competitors with new and better products. (Or for the company itself to improve under competitive pressure.)

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#250

Post by bun_at_work »

giantg2 wrote: post #235
arsome wrote: post #161

Are we really so stupid that we cannot see through this kind of thing and need to actively censor it to have civilized society continue to function? When do we just give up on democracy completely?

I completely agree. I would like to see some of the other replies here comment on how democracy can function if the citizens are incompetent/stupid. If they can't be trusted to be knowledgeable, then how can they make informed decisions, including voting? And of course, who decides which people hold legitimate positions and which people are ignorant?

It is well known that an educated, free people are necessary for the functioning of democracy. It's part of the justification for the 1st Amendment.

We have new technologies which are being leveraged to intentionally misinform people, in a society that has degraded public education and raised the cost of higher education to levels prohibitive for the majority of the population, and as a result, the society (as a whole) is no longer sufficiently informed.

So, how can democracy function if the citizens are not educated? It can't. We are now seeing the results of the effects mentioned above, and the tech companies in question are starting to realize it, and respond in only way they can, while still maintaining their own wealth and power.

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