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Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

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Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#231

Post by DenisM »

411111111111111 wrote: post #164
DenisM wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term “right” comes from the delegates seating in the French National Assembly during the revolution. Both the Left (Jacobins) and the Right (Girondists) voted together to behead the King and dispense with all noble priveledges and titles.

These people wanted to return to an aristocracy according to wikipedias history section of right wing, so his point stands I think. But I'm not knowledgeable about history, so do elaborate if you know details please.

Girondists? Aristocracy?! No way. There were many royalists in France, but none in the National Assembly.

The Girondists were considered right only because Jacobins were super left and ended up killing thousands of priests, what few nobles they could still find, tens of thousands of suspected royalists in mass executions, and eventually the Girondists themselves too for being too soft. The Girondists went to the guillotine singing The Marseilles! Certainly not the royalists that lot.

I recommend the “Revolutions” podcast - about 30 hours worth of the French Revolution is better than any movie.

Also the history of revolutions is very educational in this day and age. I for one hope we will never experience anything like it.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#232

Post by erik_seaberg »

Cederfjard wrote: post #86
c1ccccc1 wrote: post #70

This almost makes me suspect that the Facebook executives behind this decision are secretly die hard pro-Trumpers. Sure, it's definitely a bit spooky that people are going around saying the election was stolen when, as far as I can tell, there's no hard evidence of widespread cheating. (I'm open to changing my mind given sufficient evidence, I'm just saying that I haven't seen it yet.) But this is the equivalent of F…

It might still have the desired effect if it stops this content from spreading. Sure, the people who post it get more pissed off, but a larger number who would’ve been exposed to it otherwise now won’t. I don’t have any data to support any conclusion, just brainstorming.

The Soviet Union cracked down on typewriters but couldn’t stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat. These people will undoubtedly find something similar. Actual suppression makes any conspiracy theory more credible.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#233

Post by josephg »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #42

im saying this because it seems like such an obvious point but i havent seen it here- why are people who want the government to be replaced by the "free market" allowed to be upset that private companies are silencing them? what is the rationale for squaring this circle

An ideology is a story / model of the world. And all models are lies (and some models are useful).

There's a few ideologies / models going on here. Eg:

- A company is like a person, with all the rights of free expression and self governance. From that perspective, twitter and FB are free to have whatever systems of regulation (or be totally arbitrary and capricious). And its up to the market to replace twitter/FB.

- A monopolistic social media website is part of the public square. So facebook is more like the US federal government than it is like the burger shop down the road. As such, facebook/twitter should be held to the norms of a government, not the norms of a business. They should allow free speech by the participants in that space, in accordance with the laws of the land. The market should be free to work inside twitter/fb.

Both of these stories are internally consistent, and both stories are consistent with the broad ideas of "free speech" and "free markets".

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#234

Post by bun_at_work »

arsome wrote: post #161

Are we really so stupid that we cannot see through this kind of thing and need to actively censor it to have civilized society continue to function? When do we just give up on democracy completely?

You'd have a valid point here if all people were 100% rational actors with perfect knowledge and agency. Unfortunately, they aren't.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#235

Post by giantg2 »

arsome wrote: post #161

Are we really so stupid that we cannot see through this kind of thing and need to actively censor it to have civilized society continue to function? When do we just give up on democracy completely?

I completely agree. I would like to see some of the other replies here comment on how democracy can function if the citizens are incompetent/stupid. If they can't be trusted to be knowledgeable, then how can they make informed decisions, including voting? And of course, who decides which people hold legitimate positions and which people are ignorant?

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#236

Post by distrill »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #139
distrill wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What media? That's exactly how fox news, oan, newsmax and donald trump talk about BLM.

Can you cite an example of Donald Trump or any of those news sources calling BLM a terrorist organization, or an organization that has some terrorists in it? I haven't seen that word used. "Criminal", "thug", "looter", "rioter", yes, but not "terrorist".

https://www.foxnews.com/us/giuliani-trump-black-lives-matter...

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=586745618696234

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#237

Post by bun_at_work »

jtbayly wrote: post #211
Gabriel_Martin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many seem to have been completely taken in to it, yes. And given it seems to have lead to deadly consequences already, I don't think it's unreasonable for these companies to consider it a huge liability.

Are you aware of what other things have led to deadly consequences? Communism, socialism, green terrorism, and self driving cars come to mind.

This is simply whataboutism.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#238

Post by dcolkitt »

root_axis wrote: post #226
BurningFrog wrote: post #221

Tell me how this is wrong: The US is de facto converting to the Chinese model for the internet: All communication must be monitored, damaging content must be erased, and in serious cases, those responsible must be punished. If Parler gets a foreign data center, I expect a "Great Firewall of China" with American characteristics will soon follow.

Facebook is not a country, it's a website, trying to characterize Facebook's business decisions as U.S policy is a dishonest rhetorical tactic.

Honest question: Is Facebook doing this out of genuine business interest? Or because they're concerned about legal and/or regulatory backlash?

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#239

Post by jtbayly »

bun_at_work wrote: post #237
jtbayly wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of what other things have led to deadly consequences? Communism, socialism, green terrorism, and self driving cars come to mind.

This is simply whataboutism.

No it’s not. The post I’m responding to made a case for why censorship is fine in this case. That reason applies very very broadly.

If we are ok with that reason, then we are ok with that reason, and we must acknowledge what else is caught in that net.

Re: Facebook Says It Is Removing All Content Mentioning 'Stop the Steal'

#240

Post by courtf »

BurningFrog wrote: post #221

Tell me how this is wrong: The US is de facto converting to the Chinese model for the internet: All communication must be monitored, damaging content must be erased, and in serious cases, those responsible must be punished. If Parler gets a foreign data center, I expect a "Great Firewall of China" with American characteristics will soon follow.

This is bonkers, plainly so. You are really not expecting anyone to be able to demonstrate that?

There's thousands of sites, readily accessible today, with incredible images and posts containing all the most heinous things you can imagine. No firewall yet, although they have been chased off the more polite sections of the web. This is no different.

I'm confused by all the hyperventilating.

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