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Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

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Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#41

Post by balthigor »

kortilla wrote: post #24
matthewdgreen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If prices are out of line, that definitely seems like a place where automated trading would be valuable. But HFTs' tech advantage isn't just about finding a better arbitrage algorithm or being smarter: it's also quite clearly about exploiting a pure technical advantage over other traders. The fact that HFTs are so willing to invest in speed even to achieve a tiny advantage over other HFTs kind of gives the game away.…

> The fact that HFTs are so willing to invest in speed even to achieve a tiny advantage over other HFTs kind of gives the game away. Re-pricing s&p500 futures offers in Chicago based on faster stock offer information from nyc is fine. It’s improving a market making strategy or taking offers that look like they will now be profitable. > And when people quite rightly observe that having a speed advantage over other tra…

> HFTs do not front run for fucks sake. It’s illegal ...

This is objectively false. Cursing does not strengthen an argument. HFTs paid to jump the queue. It should be illegal but it is not. There are a number of low-latency strategies that are beneficial for price discovery such as index arbitrage or market-making (with requirements to stay in the market). A strategy that is not beneficial is to pay the exchange for first-look. That is front-running.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#42

Post by StanislavPetrov »

>What this means is that some entities are experimenting with the use of the HF bands for the most direct, point-to-point means of conveying this information possible.

Interesting that this is now being done with HF bands. For several years, however, this has already been done through the use of lasers (although at a far greater cost).

>Last year (2013), Anova completed a laser network link between the London and Frankfurt stock exchanges, and now, it seems the company is nearing completion on a similar laser network between the NYSE and NASDAQ data centers in Mahwah and Carteret, New Jersey.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/176551-new-laser-network...

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#43

Post by davidwihl »

nomercy400 wrote: post #28

Can you listen to the traffic/data on these lines? Is it encrypted (seems unlikely if latency is a must)? Can you mitm?

Ham radio transmissions are not allowed to be encrypted per FAR 97.113(4). [1]

I suspect this is also a violation of FAR 97.113(3) "Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer"

[1] https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=d4b3c60d2d60000a14...

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#44

Post by ardy42 »

walrus01 wrote: post #18

For HFT purposes, it's hard to hide an intercontinental range HF antenna, particularly a directional one. I know at least 3 locations not far from the illinois CME datacenter, out in some fields, with huge yagi-uda antennas aimed at London and tokyo.

> For HFT purposes, it's hard to hide an intercontinental range HF antenna, particularly a directional one. I know at least 3 locations not far from the illinois CME datacenter, out in some fields, with huge yagi-uda antennas aimed at London and tokyo.

Got any pictures?

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#45

Post by mrob »

andromeduck wrote: post #30
ajkjk wrote: post #26

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see the whole HFT industry be deleted. What a waste of human intellect.

Arbitrage is good actually. Tigher spreads make transactions cheaper and safer for the smaller players.

People aren't complaining about arbitrage, they're complaining about microsecond-level timing optimizations. The same benefits to smaller players could be obtained from trading at a human time scale (e.g. something around professional StarCraft player actions per minute).

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#47

Post by bigredhdl »

andromeduck wrote: post #30
ajkjk wrote: post #26

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see the whole HFT industry be deleted. What a waste of human intellect.

Arbitrage is good actually. Tigher spreads make transactions cheaper and safer for the smaller players.

Just because something has benefit, doesn't mean the benefit outweighs the cost. Specifically we are talking about the opportunity cost of other valuable things these people could be creating. Obviously this can be difficult to measure.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#49

Post by caymanjim »

cl0ckt0wer wrote: post #35
walrus01 wrote: post #18

For HFT purposes, it's hard to hide an intercontinental range HF antenna, particularly a directional one. I know at least 3 locations not far from the illinois CME datacenter, out in some fields, with huge yagi-uda antennas aimed at London and tokyo.

What altitude would you have to be at to have line of site to Tokyo and London from Chicago? They're probably aimed somewhere above and in between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave

You'd need to be in orbit.

Edit: actually it might not be possible at all from a single point anywhere in the universe.

Re: Intruder at the top of the 20 meter amateur band?

#50

Post by bigiain »

davidwihl wrote: post #43
nomercy400 wrote: post #28

Can you listen to the traffic/data on these lines? Is it encrypted (seems unlikely if latency is a must)? Can you mitm?

Ham radio transmissions are not allowed to be encrypted per FAR 97.113(4). [1] I suspect this is also a violation of FAR 97.113(3) "Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer" [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=d4b3c60d2d60000a14...

Do the “part 5 experimental licenses” have that ham encryption restriction? It sounds like that at the very least are exempt from the ham station ID requirements. Are they actually ham operators, or other licensed entities permitted to use the ham bands?
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