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Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

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Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#111

Post by mroset »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #99
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

Why does it need to be just programming? I don't understand this attitude, whether in schools or jail, program, program, program. I program too, its my job so I get it provides a living but my God do we get myopic at times. Other careers, good ones too are out there.

I believe programming in this context means "scheduled (often educational) activities", not coding.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#112

Post by macksd »

cubano wrote: post #35
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

I would support treating ex-cons as a protected class where you can reject candidates for specific roles for specific reasons but can't just discriminate against anyone with any history. History of theft? Okay, let's not leave you alone with people's valuables. History of assault? Okay, let's not leave you alone with vulnerable people. But beyond that, if we're not willing to say that your sentence is finished when your sentence is finished, we're admitting a major flaw in our criminal justice system. And maybe that flaw is there, but then we should fix it. "Guilty for the rest of your life for ANY conviction" is just as bad as "guilty until proven innocent" in my opinion. I don't know what you were convicted of, but there aren't many things that would block me from trusting you to sit at a computer in an office and contribute to a software project as part of a team.

Side note: are there really NO companies that let you in the door? I've had some larger corporate places ask me about any criminal history and have even run a background check. But I don't think it's come up at small and medium-size companies, where I'd also expect there's a bit more understanding and flexibility anyway. Maybe the ageism is more of an obstacle there? But then maybe I just don't notice because I don't have a conviction to tell them about. I certainly don't mean to minimize your problem, just wondering if it's really a complete deal breaker everywhere.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#113

Post by offtop5 »

leetcrew wrote: post #100
offtop5 wrote: post #49

Society needs to have something between jaywalking and attempted murder. Right now if you fish without a permit in the wrong place you're a felon and you will never be able to get a decent job for the rest of your life. The entire reason the American criminal justice system is like this, at its core is to punish minority groups. I don't ever see this changing, and it's a big part of why I want to make an exit by 40.…

> Society needs to have something between jaywalking and attempted murder. there is already a lot of gradation in the spectrum of consequences: fines, probation, house arrest, weekend sentence (free to work during the week, but need check into jail each weekend), different security levels for different offenses. not much "rehabilitation" occurs anywhere along the spectrum, but it's not like you go straight from a sma…

Almost all of those come with an arrest record which can stop you from getting a decent job.

Just because you can get 3 months for a felony charge, doesn't mean you'll ever be able to work again. We need a system to get rid of most criminal records after a certain amount of time

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#114

Post by Chris2048 »

3131s wrote: post #30
cousin_it wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now people spend hours every day joylessly scrolling their phones because the free market has found a way to profit from that. I want fewer addictive industries, not more.

The blood is on your hands then. Edit: The poster I'm replying to should be deplatformed immediately for inciting violence, specifically for perpetuating black markets that have devastated entire countries, for supporting raids of homes at gunpoint over possession of substances that are bought and sold without coercion, for the inconsistent doses and impurities and stigmatization that will continue to kill addicts, a…

Did they change their comment? "I want fewer addictive industries, not more" doesn't sound like what you describe..

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#115

Post by i_love_limes »

oytis wrote: post #81
i_love_limes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehhh, most studies in this realm have a 'results' section and 'discussion' section. I disagree that experts in their field can't have an opinion laid out in the discussion section, given that it follows from the analysis and results from the previous sections. That being said, the page is currently timing out, so I can' even read the article...

'Results' present the new knowledge gained in a short form. 'Discussion' is normally an invitation to scientific discussion, not a political one. But even if it has the latter, it's still not the result of a study, just a piece of opinion that authors saw appropriate to include. The paper [1] really seems more like a call to action from ethicists published in a scientific journal as a study for whatever reason. [1] h…

You started off with the idea that research papers "can't tell you what should be done", which it seems like you disagree with now?

> 'Discussion' is normally an invitation to scientific discussion, not a political one

To think that those are so distinct is perhaps naive.

Thanks for the link, it does seem to be a call to action as you said, but backed by many studies across many disciplines. Which would make it both a scientific and political.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#116

Post by cactus2093 »

aaomidi wrote: post #54
cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

> A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state.

Doesn't this contradict the whole idea of parole? My understanding is that people who are out on parole are deemed not safe to be fully left to their own in society, they often have not served their full sentence, but are given the chance to ease back into society earlier.

Wouldn't a more hard-line approach of either 100% safe or unsafe result in even more time spent in jail?

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#117

Post by QuercusMax »

dominotw wrote: post #104
aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

> 2. Yes I'm fine with sexual predators living in the same building as me. Teaching my children. And being my co-worker. For the same aforementioned reasons. I am parent and I understand what you mean here and It makes complete sense to me. But I am having a little hard time with this, some part of my brain just wont' accept it.

If we still have sexual offender registries, etc., then you might well know that this person was a sexual offender in the past. Also, if we as a society have better resources for counseling and so forth, we may actually be able to help teach these folks better ways to live in society.

But it is a big mindset shift. If someone has paid their debt to society - their debt has been paid, and they shouldn't continue to be punished.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#118

Post by ativzzz »

NullPrefix wrote: post #89
cabaalis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this black and white view is how the constitution was written, and in boolean logic would be how it is designed. But reality has many shades of grey. Would you trust your personal banking to an institution with history of leaking/mishandling/selling everything about you, or losing records of your balance? Would you trust your health information to a doctor with previous history of kickbacks, malpractice, lax…

Was the institution reformed and executive board reprogrammed after it was caught?

No. They are most likely punished for their crime via a fine or a temporary license suspension with the only deterrent for future crimes being larger fines or longer suspensions.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#119

Post by xiphias2 »

mumblemumble wrote: post #66
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. I count myself blessed to have opportunities when I came home. I'm so happy to hear that you had that. A while back, a member of my community was not so lucky. He got caught with an ounce of pot, spent some time in prison. When he got out, he had no legitimate job prospects due to his criminal record. He did eventually a job, though, through netw…

Why do these people stay in the US?

In Europe if you say that you were imprisoned for smoking pot, people will just laugh at the situation, because it’s so hard to believe.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#120

Post by icefrakker »

aaomidi wrote: post #54
cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

Comments like this show you when the left finds its four year lunatic messiah like the reactionaries did, they are going to be just as bad if not worse.
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