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Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

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Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cubano wrote: post #35
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

> I can't even be considered once it's discovered I went to prison some 20 years ago

Is there any legislative push to seal records of non-violent offenders after N years of non-recividism?

Seven years for most crimes, and fourteen for fraud and corruption would seem fair.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#42

Post by Hello71 »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #16
whiddershins wrote: post #2

First of all, I basically agree with this. Here’s something I don’t know: Sometimes I wonder whether some people in prison for non-violent drug offenses did a plea bargain down from a violent offense. And if that were the case, should this affect our opinion on any of this?

On the federal level in the USA that is not possible. Firearms and violence add on points to your sentencing and are often linked with mandatory minimums. Firearms in particular really tank your chances of a short sentence. Prior to the First Step Act you couldn't even participate in RDAP with a firearm linked to your crime. I outlined this in a different comment, but programming like RDAP should be developed and sta…

to clarify, since most people without personal experience in the US criminal system don't know: in the US, you can be, and usually are, sentenced based on crimes and/or facts you were not convicted or even charged for.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#43

Post by BikiniPrince »

cubano wrote: post #35
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

I’m getting out of tech by 55. Maybe I won’t go insane in a smaller shop, but watching everyone without experience commit the same atrocities over and over is like hell.

After a remodel I learned how lucrative cabinet makers have it. I started building my wood working shop a while ago and at some I’ll transition to that.

I’ve got some growing and I have a lucrative position, but this battery is about depleted.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#44

Post by azinman2 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #11
whiddershins wrote: post #2

First of all, I basically agree with this. Here’s something I don’t know: Sometimes I wonder whether some people in prison for non-violent drug offenses did a plea bargain down from a violent offense. And if that were the case, should this affect our opinion on any of this?

I agree. It needs a little more nuance, especially the plea bargaining. And on top of that, prosecutors are known to pile on tons of only vaguely-applicable, probably-not-convictable charges just to get someone to plea bargain down, so that complicates even the plea bargain exception. I'll throw in another part where more fine-grained control would be nice: the amount of said substances is measured by gross weight, b…

And what about trafficking 100kg of heroin? Everyone likes to pick the seemingly trivial examples to justify liberal values on jailing (“what if the 3rd strike is stealing a loaf of bread!”) but the reality is there are a broad range of crimes by a broad range of people. That’s why we have judges and give them latitude.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#45

Post by elric »

m-p-3 wrote: post #34

And the root cause of the problem is as long as for-profit prisons exists, there is no incentive to free those non-violent criminals.

There are countries without for-profit prisons where people are locked up for non-violent drug offences.

To me, it seems important for the severity of punishment to reflect the severity of the crime (where severity is some function of outcome & intent). Clearly locking people up for smoking pot or snorting coke is pointless. Locking people up for victimless crimes in general seems strange.

I think the idea is for these punishments to serve as course-correcting examples for the rest of society. But I'm having a hard time imaging a society that defines its mores based on how much jail time a given behaviour might incur. At least I can't imagine it being a good thing. If we want to reduce harm from drugs, we should work on reducing harm from drugs, instead of blindly banning all drugs and locking people up. But it seems that we, as a society, don't want to tackle the harder problem.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#46

Post by klyrs »

neogodless wrote: post #39
m-p-3 wrote: post #34

And the root cause of the problem is as long as for-profit prisons exists, there is no incentive to free those non-violent criminals.

Not disagreeing on incentive but for clarification... My understanding would be that freeing non-violent criminals would be a matter of legislation and the court system. The choice would not be up to the prison. But do you think the prisons influence the legislation (or, horrifically, the judicial system)? To say that it's a the root cause is to say that for-profit prisons drive legislation on drugs, but I do not bel…

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-find...

> In the Public Interest (ITPI), a Washington, D.C.-based research and policy group on public services, reported in September 2013 that it found so-called bed guarantees in around 65% of the more than 60 private prison contracts it analyzed, including contracts from Texas, Ohio, Colorado and Florida. The bed guarantees, or “lockup quotas,” ranged from 70% minimum occupancy in at least one California facility to 100% occupancy at three Arizona prisons. The most common bed guarantee was 90%.

> Public officials who agree to lockup quotas, according to corrections experts, become obligated – against their communities’ best interests – to keep prisons filled to ensure that taxpayer dollars aren’t being wasted.

> “It’s really shortsighted public policy to do anything that ties the hands of the state,” said Michele Deitch, a senior lecturer at the University of Texas School of Public Affairs and an expert on private prisons. “If there are these incentives to keep the private prisons full, then it is reducing the likelihood that states will adopt strategies to reduce prison costs by keeping more people out.”

Horrific is the right word.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#47

Post by BikiniPrince »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

> I can't even be considered once it's discovered I went to prison some 20 years ago Is there any legislative push to seal records of non-violent offenders after N years of non-recividism? Seven years for most crimes, and fourteen for fraud and corruption would seem fair.

You can in some circumstances depending on the crime and age of offense. What can you convince a judge to do is all I know.

My home town had a deputy that wanted to be a sheriff or had won the position. However, they had a minor record.

Parents filed statutory rape charges because he was 18 and she was 17. They just didn’t like him and they were eventually married later. Still, he carried they charge for 20 years.

The sealing or removal was made public notice and of course everyone talks.

In the grand scheme of things it was his wife and the age difference issue was amended in law. Because people recognize kids don’t magically not socialize on 18.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#48

Post by Ericson2314 »

cousin_it wrote: post #28
iridium_core wrote: post #10

Just legalise all drugs and let the free market decide. We could create innovative new substances which are safer and less socially damaging, compared to the plants and fermented liquids we happen to have stumbled upon millenia ago.

Right now people spend hours every day joylessly scrolling their phones because the free market has found a way to profit from that. I want fewer addictive industries, not more.

This is true. I don't think parent poster means it should still illegal. Just try to remove the "profit part".

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#49

Post by offtop5 »

Society needs to have something between jaywalking and attempted murder.

Right now if you fish without a permit in the wrong place you're a felon and you will never be able to get a decent job for the rest of your life. The entire reason the American criminal justice system is like this, at its core is to punish minority groups.

I don't ever see this changing, and it's a big part of why I want to make an exit by 40. I imagine if I do decide to have a family it would be in a more civilized country

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#50

Post by greedo »

drran wrote: post #25
iridium_core wrote: post #10

Just legalise all drugs and let the free market decide. We could create innovative new substances which are safer and less socially damaging, compared to the plants and fermented liquids we happen to have stumbled upon millenia ago.

Just plant two electrodes directly into the brain.

Larry Niven's Ringworld series has a protagonist named Louis Wu who is addicted to a "tasp" that is pretty much a direct connection to the brain that provides stimulus. I fear that we'll end up with that as VR/AR get better and better. Combine that with Musk's neural stuff...
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