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Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#161

Post by andrewmutz »

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #45
chasing wrote: post #41

Parler wasn't some innocent social media site that happened to have some disgusting content on it. The disgusting content was literally its reason for existing, despite all of the bland "we're just a free speech site" stuff. And I have yet to hear anyone discuss how "anything goes" and social media do not mix. It's much easier to turn a community toxic than it is to keep it healthy, and healthy communities (of any so…

The NYT lied to the American public to whip them up into supporting the Iraq War, which led to the deaths of millions of people (many of them innocent). Why won't AWS, Google, and Apple collectively ban them? Their open calls for violence were far more consequential and severe and serious than anything on Parler

The Iraq war is a great example because it highlights how rare this is. You had to go back 15 years to find an example of the mainstream media misleading people on this scale.

It can be true that both:

- The NYT deserves a lot of blame for the lead up to the iraq war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#The_Iraq_War)

- Newspapers generally do a really good job of fact checking the articles they print

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#162

Post by cabalamat »

_pmf_ wrote: post #125
betterunix2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT did not make the Iraq war possible. It did not facilitate planning the war. It did not play any role in convincing the Bush administration to go to war. Can we stop with the "whataboutism" already?

Reframing pointing out hypocrisy as "whataboutism" is the greatest trick the devil ever pulled.

Maybe.

But all humans are self-serving hypocrites, it is in our nature.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#163

Post by finder83 »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #131

This is troubling. I understand the 1st amendment argument, but isn't this more an anti-trust case? If a baker won't bake you a cake because you're gay there are dozens of other bakeries nearby that will, regardless of the merits or lackthereof of choosing not to bake a cake in that situation. If your service provider kicks you off their platform they've destroyed your entire business. I understand if they won't allo…

Exactly, it's a 1st amendment issue because it's a monopoly (or mutual anti-competitive practices) issue. So you're entirely correct. If the big tech companies weren't engaging in anti-competitive practices, then the censoring would not be a big deal. But because there really is only one Facebook and little to no competition, and they're colluding in the same prejudice, then yes, it's a lack of freedom of speech.

I'm all for the "they're a private company, they should do what they want" argument, if they (Twitter and Facebook) weren't the only nationally agreed upon means of communication and socializing during a nationwide lock-down.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#164

Post by hashbig »

chasing wrote: post #41

Parler wasn't some innocent social media site that happened to have some disgusting content on it. The disgusting content was literally its reason for existing, despite all of the bland "we're just a free speech site" stuff. And I have yet to hear anyone discuss how "anything goes" and social media do not mix. It's much easier to turn a community toxic than it is to keep it healthy, and healthy communities (of any so…

I remember very well as a middle eastern how ISIS was freely allowed to use Twitter, Facebook and Youtube for recruitment and propaganda in 2015 and none of those platforms did anything about it. Also just today this story was on the front page in HN: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/06/technology/myanmar-facebo...

So spare us all the "No hate and violence on our platform" BS. Either you go after all hate and violence or you are just a hypocrite.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#165

Post by hackyhacky »

halfjoking wrote: post #154
hackyhacky wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Parler has been use to literally plan an overthrow of the US government. That's why it's banned. So far, Parler and its associates have come a lot closer to dismantling American democracy than Iran ever has. That's why they get taken more seriously. Neither Twitter, nor Apple, nor Amazon want to be responsible for the rise of a fascist regime in the US. Too often, you can't see the rise of authoritarianism…

"Storming the capital" had as much legitimacy as the "raid on AREA 51." Those people dressed like Huck Finn Braveheart had as much chance of overthrowing the US government as memelords did kidnapping an alien and bringing intergalactic peace. This feels like 9/11 all over again. You got the worst legislation in US history as a result of 9/11. (the Patriotic Act) What's going to be the Patriotic Act for the internet n…

Really? They overwhelmed police and entered the building. The Vice President was moved to a "secure location." If they had arrived 5 minutes earlier, they'd have entered the House full of representatives, who could have been killed or taken hostage. We were a hair's width away from losing democracy and you can't take it seriously.

We are, literally, being attacked by fascists, anarchists, and neo-Nazis.

As I said, it's hard to see these things until it's too late. What happened on Wednesday was nearly the end. If you still don't see it, you're wearing blinders.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#166

Post by jeffreyrogers »

kgwxd wrote: post #158
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #131

This is troubling. I understand the 1st amendment argument, but isn't this more an anti-trust case? If a baker won't bake you a cake because you're gay there are dozens of other bakeries nearby that will, regardless of the merits or lackthereof of choosing not to bake a cake in that situation. If your service provider kicks you off their platform they've destroyed your entire business. I understand if they won't allo…

But there are a dozen other bakeries in this situation. None of which will bake them a cake. No bakery is going to make anyone a cyanide cake and no reasonable person would expect them to be legally required to do so.

I doubt that is true. I'm sure some will take Parler's business. They just can't do it immediately because it's hard to switch from one platform to another.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#167

Post by minimuffins »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #121
minimuffins wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is it a coincidence that the world’s oldest democracy also happens to have many of the most robust corporations? These corporations are societally expected to uphold a cultural respect for free speech and the rights granted in the First Amendment, but there is no legal basis to compel them to allow speech or activity they do not approve of. Extrajudicial behavior such as terrorizing a legislature is harmful to these…

> no legal basis

I agree. Those are the facts, for sure.

> money cares more about itself than anyone’s feelings.

No argument.

> terrorizing a legislature is harmful to these corporations’ profitable predictability

Strongly agree. This explains AWS's economic motivation. It's not that they just care so much about democracy and rule of law, though a liberal (read: Democrat loyal) employee culture there is probably also a source of pressure pushing them toward the move. In this case the stars align: liberal employees want it, and they can have it because it aligns perfectly with AWS's economic incentives.

I think where we part ways is in thinking this is good for society. My problem with it is not that it violates any laws, but that it amounts to an incredible concentration of power in the realm of cultural production.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#169

Post by rnikander »

Does anyone else think it's suspicious that they built everything on AWS? I mean, if you know you're going to take heat for your content being less moderated, wouldn't you diversify your infrastructure? I wonder if someone wanted this to happen, in order to increase support for certain legislative action?

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#170

Post by jeffreyrogers »

mech422 wrote: post #148
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #131

This is troubling. I understand the 1st amendment argument, but isn't this more an anti-trust case? If a baker won't bake you a cake because you're gay there are dozens of other bakeries nearby that will, regardless of the merits or lackthereof of choosing not to bake a cake in that situation. If your service provider kicks you off their platform they've destroyed your entire business. I understand if they won't allo…

And if all the bakers in town refuse to bake you a cake, should you be able to force one to? Seriously, when there are dozens of options and none of them want your business, shouldn't that give you pause? If all the insurance agencies refuse to insure your ship because they think it will sink, wouldn't it be prudent to double check your blueprints/construction ?

It's not that none of the other options want their business (though I have no doubt that Google and probably Microsoft would also exclude them). It's that you can't just switch platforms within days, while you could go order another cake since there's almost no time commitment to requesting a cake.
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