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Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

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Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#21

Post by pmiller2 »

TLightful wrote: post #6
whiddershins wrote: post #2

First of all, I basically agree with this. Here’s something I don’t know: Sometimes I wonder whether some people in prison for non-violent drug offenses did a plea bargain down from a violent offense. And if that were the case, should this affect our opinion on any of this?

Wouldn't that be held in the legal records? In which case, a judgement can be made?

Compared to someone's record of convictions, that information is pretty inaccessible. You'd have to go all the way back to court records at the time of their conviction.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#22

Post by snet0 »

quotemstr wrote: post #13
oytis wrote: post #5

A study (if it's a real study) can't tell you what should be done, it should give you new knowledge about the state of affairs. (while I agree that drug offense should be decriminalized).

Exactly. Any form of science cannot tell us what should or should not be done. Science informs our choices. It doesn't make them.

While I agree with the fundamental, the is-ought divide, I think this paper is basically saying "based on a load of measurements that are obviously goals of our society, criminalisation of drug offences is acting against our own interests".

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#23

Post by [deleted] »

pmiller2 wrote: post #21
TLightful wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be held in the legal records? In which case, a judgement can be made?

Compared to someone's record of convictions, that information is pretty inaccessible. You'd have to go all the way back to court records at the time of their conviction.

[deleted]

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#24

Post by clairity »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

thanks for relating your incarceration story. with the benefit of hindsight, 'tough on crime' was plainly power exerting itself on the populace to enhance its own esteem, not an exercise in creating a more just society.

let's cut every sentence (and sentencing guidelines) by 90% right off the bat and use the savings for better rehabilitation programs (like more support systems, instructional content, and training programs). involve families and communities to integrate folks back into society.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#25

Post by drran »

iridium_core wrote: post #10

Just legalise all drugs and let the free market decide. We could create innovative new substances which are safer and less socially damaging, compared to the plants and fermented liquids we happen to have stumbled upon millenia ago.

Just plant two electrodes directly into the brain.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#26

Post by rwmurrayVT »

clairity wrote: post #24
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

thanks for relating your incarceration story. with the benefit of hindsight, 'tough on crime' was plainly power exerting itself on the populace to enhance its own esteem, not an exercise in creating a more just society. let's cut every sentence (and sentencing guidelines) by 90% right off the bat and use the savings for better rehabilitation programs (like more support systems, instructional content, and training pro…

I will say that my sentence and incarceration was a good personal experience. I did actually receive every thing I needed to get it sorted out. I was in RDAP and had plenty of time for introspection. You get out what you put in, but for most there are not enough things you can put in.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#27

Post by khawkins »

snet0 wrote: post #22
quotemstr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Any form of science cannot tell us what should or should not be done. Science informs our choices. It doesn't make them.

While I agree with the fundamental, the is-ought divide, I think this paper is basically saying "based on a load of measurements that are obviously goals of our society, criminalisation of drug offences is acting against our own interests".

This is only a utilitarian ethical argument. If people approach from a deontological perspective, the measurements may not matter.

Suggesting a policy prescription in the title of a scientific study puts the legitimacy of the study in complete question. The researchers must approach the question as one which can be falsifiable, else it's not science.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#28

Post by cousin_it »

iridium_core wrote: post #10

Just legalise all drugs and let the free market decide. We could create innovative new substances which are safer and less socially damaging, compared to the plants and fermented liquids we happen to have stumbled upon millenia ago.

Right now people spend hours every day joylessly scrolling their phones because the free market has found a way to profit from that. I want fewer addictive industries, not more.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#29

Post by clairity »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #26
clairity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for relating your incarceration story. with the benefit of hindsight, 'tough on crime' was plainly power exerting itself on the populace to enhance its own esteem, not an exercise in creating a more just society. let's cut every sentence (and sentencing guidelines) by 90% right off the bat and use the savings for better rehabilitation programs (like more support systems, instructional content, and training pro…

I will say that my sentence and incarceration was a good personal experience. I did actually receive every thing I needed to get it sorted out. I was in RDAP and had plenty of time for introspection. You get out what you put in, but for most there are not enough things you can put in.

yes, some folks (at certain points in their lives) need more guidance to find their way. hopefully that's what we can work towards, rather than just lock-em up for as long as we can.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#30

Post by 3131s »

cousin_it wrote: post #28
iridium_core wrote: post #10

Just legalise all drugs and let the free market decide. We could create innovative new substances which are safer and less socially damaging, compared to the plants and fermented liquids we happen to have stumbled upon millenia ago.

Right now people spend hours every day joylessly scrolling their phones because the free market has found a way to profit from that. I want fewer addictive industries, not more.

The blood is on your hands then.

Edit: The poster I'm replying to should be deplatformed immediately for inciting violence, specifically for perpetuating black markets that have devastated entire countries, for supporting raids of homes at gunpoint over possession of substances that are bought and sold without coercion, for the inconsistent doses and impurities and stigmatization that will continue to kill addicts, and for widespread incarceration which is targeted toward already disadvantaged minorities.

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