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No More KYC with ShapeShift

erikvoorhees.medium.com

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Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#71

Post by vlovich123 »

thomaszander wrote: post #62
aidenn0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, shares are just a pyramid scheme too, if you assume there is no obligation from the company to pay dividends or such. Yes, a company that promises to never make a profit, pay out any dividends to its shareholders, or buyback stocks is a pyramid scheme. Your statement here is a bit like saying a credit card is just like bank robbery, if there's no obligation to pay off the balance.

notice that the disingenuous statements came not from me, but from the parent comment who asserted (without basis): > With no incoming revenue [] I didn't want to be an ass to point this out, seems I confused you instead.

I'm still not sure I understand the revenue stream. Stock generally is a bet on the future value of the company. That value is derived from the business itself (revenues, costs, new business markets, etc). If a company isn't actually taking in any revenue, what's it paying payroll with? The alt coin they created and trading amongst third parties? Are they taking a cut of this? Or just constantly selling more of their coin reserves once it appreciates?

Generally even loss-leading plays that try to create a huge community before monetization still have plans to monetize that community. I asked how this is different from a pyramid scheme/Ponzi scheme. I don't feel like you actually addressed this point. How will ShapeShift make money on connecting these users in a way that doesn't require following KYC rules?

Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#73

Post by jeffreyrogers »

StavrosK wrote: post #10
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #3

Seems unlikely that they are actually going to be able to get around KYC.

Why would they need KYC if they don't handle any money?

I just think the law will either be changed or re-interpreted to not allow this. Too great a potential for use in laundering money/tax evasion on capital gains.

Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#74

Post by simon_kun »

vlovich123 wrote: post #71
thomaszander wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

notice that the disingenuous statements came not from me, but from the parent comment who asserted (without basis): > With no incoming revenue [] I didn't want to be an ass to point this out, seems I confused you instead.

I'm still not sure I understand the revenue stream. Stock generally is a bet on the future value of the company. That value is derived from the business itself (revenues, costs, new business markets, etc). If a company isn't actually taking in any revenue, what's it paying payroll with? The alt coin they created and trading amongst third parties? Are they taking a cut of this? Or just constantly selling more of their…

I'm by far not an expert in this space, but governance coins can also be utility coins - eg provide you with certain rights to use a service, or use a service at a discount or priority in some way ( eg. see Celsius). In this way, the coins circulate and can be used as a form of payment in an alternative to fiat but that were originally bought with fiat (similar to tokens at a laundromat). Overall, I recommend you look into DeFi for a few examples of this (eg Uniswap, Celsius)

Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#75

Post by mbesto »

googlryas wrote: post #66
mbesto wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A company is a collection of individuals. What's your point? Facebook is a collection of individuals, but if Zuck wants political ads barred from his platform he can snap his fingers and make it happen. Having individual private companies become the arbiters of justice for good/bad actors is not a sound resolution...especially when it comes to fraud/identify theft.

In that case, individuals join a collective knowing that they are deferring their viewpoints to the shareholders. And the individuals are free to leave at any time if they feel their views aren't aligned with the company view. And what's the alternative? Who is the decision outsourced to if not the individual/company?

> Who is the decision outsourced to if not the individual/company?

KYC is a regulation requirement, so then the government.

Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#76

Post by oh_sigh »

mbesto wrote: post #75
googlryas wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, individuals join a collective knowing that they are deferring their viewpoints to the shareholders. And the individuals are free to leave at any time if they feel their views aren't aligned with the company view. And what's the alternative? Who is the decision outsourced to if not the individual/company?

> Who is the decision outsourced to if not the individual/company? KYC is a regulation requirement, so then the government.

Fairly simplistic to argue that the government laws are the be all end all of discussions about good/evil.

I can gaslight my spouse into insanity if I want completely legally. I guess that isn't evil since there is no law against it.

Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#77

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

thomaszander wrote: post #57
meowster wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Monero doesn't enable privacy by default It does in fact enable privacy by default. If you want to show someone the details of a transaction or an address balance, you have to provide viewkeys. > I'm personally a big fan of Now your comment reads like an attempt to shill, which would explain the misinformation about Monero. According to HN's rules, I have to assume you have better intentions than that. Please expla…

> It does in fact enable privacy by default. Ok, my statement was maybe too black/white and you jumped on top of that. The point is that Monero has Privacy level / mixin settings, the default is not completely open, but certainly doesn't qualify as super private either. > Now your comment reads like an attempt to shill I shared a link to a product that I feel is very successful in reaching privacy. I have no ties to…

>Monero has Privacy level / mixin settings,

What are you even talking about?

Re: No More KYC with ShapeShift

#78

Post by caffeinatedgoat »

thomaszander wrote: post #57
meowster wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Monero doesn't enable privacy by default It does in fact enable privacy by default. If you want to show someone the details of a transaction or an address balance, you have to provide viewkeys. > I'm personally a big fan of Now your comment reads like an attempt to shill, which would explain the misinformation about Monero. According to HN's rules, I have to assume you have better intentions than that. Please expla…

> It does in fact enable privacy by default. Ok, my statement was maybe too black/white and you jumped on top of that. The point is that Monero has Privacy level / mixin settings, the default is not completely open, but certainly doesn't qualify as super private either. > Now your comment reads like an attempt to shill I shared a link to a product that I feel is very successful in reaching privacy. I have no ties to…

> The point is that Monero has Privacy level / mixin settings

I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

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