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Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

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Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor they might have been considering: it does seem like these covid spikes reach a point, and then calm down. They might have hoped the top of the peak would have come earlier, and they might have been able to announce that it were safe to return. For example, if Cali had peaked a week ago, by the time y'all were set to move in, it would have been relatively safe.

It's all about the Benjamins. If they gave students enough forewarning they could pursue other options.

You're right that such short notice puts students in a tough spot. They can apparently still request pro-rated refunds, [1] but at this point they have signed up for classes and are (or were) excited to start.

1: https://registrar.stanford.edu/tuition-refund-schedule

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#32
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you covid conspiracy blatherers still active. What do you get out of this?

2017 flu season: 45 million infections, 61k deaths 2017 death rate: 0.14% 2020 covid: 91 million infections (as of dec 11 2020), 294,535 deaths (as of dec 12 2020) 2020 death rate: 0.32% Covid is about 2-3 times as bad a bad flu season. The vast, vast majority of people under 60 do not die. There is no reason to shut everything down and ruin businesses, the economy and people's lives. Yes people will die. People die…

Your numbers are wrong. There are 21 million COVID-19 cases in the U.S., and 350,000 deaths. That's a CFR of 1.67%. You picked the number of worldwide cases and compared it to the number of U.S. deaths.

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CFR of COVID is less than 0.5 The CFR of COVID—and everything else that might be require ICU care —goes way up when hospitals are overwhelmed because the infection rate isn't controlled. CFR isn't a constant.

How is 300,000 new cases per day controlled? That seems very out of control and the CFR is still less than 0.5

The CFR in the United States is 1.67%. Your numbers are wrong.

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2017 flu season: 45 million infections, 61k deaths 2017 death rate: 0.14% 2020 covid: 91 million infections (as of dec 11 2020), 294,535 deaths (as of dec 12 2020) 2020 death rate: 0.32% Covid is about 2-3 times as bad a bad flu season. The vast, vast majority of people under 60 do not die. There is no reason to shut everything down and ruin businesses, the economy and people's lives. Yes people will die. People die…

Your numbers are wrong. There are 21 million COVID-19 cases in the U.S., and 350,000 deaths. That's a CFR of 1.67%. You picked the number of worldwide cases and compared it to the number of U.S. deaths.

Wow, it's even more wrong than I thought. Something tells me they're going to keep posting the same debunked statistics under other throwaways regardless of how many times they get called out though...

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your numbers are wrong. There are 21 million COVID-19 cases in the U.S., and 350,000 deaths. That's a CFR of 1.67%. You picked the number of worldwide cases and compared it to the number of U.S. deaths.

Wow, it's even more wrong than I thought. Something tells me they're going to keep posting the same debunked statistics under other throwaways regardless of how many times they get called out though...

[deleted]

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#37

Out of curiosity and for the sake of comparison- to what extent did other campuses handle the situation similarly or differently? I'm especially curious about Berkeley since they're also a top-tier program in a similar region, but those with insight into any other California campus would also be interesting to hear from.

From https://registrar.berkeley.edu/service-adjustments/instructi...

> Will students be required to take in-person classes or be present on campus?

Students will NOT be required to take in-person classes or be present on campus for the spring semester. Almost all academic offerings, including those with in-person instructional activities, will also be delivered remotely. Courses that will be offered in-person if public health conditions allow will have remote alternatives so that students can continue to make academic progress.

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#38

Stanford frosh (freshman) here. What's disappointing about this is not _that_ they cancelled — most of my friends agree that it's the prudent thing to do — but that they waited so long to cancel. For context, classes start tomorrow [0]. One of my friends literally got the news about the cancellation when he landed in SFO yesterday. Just a few weeks ago, they sent us an email reaffirming their plan to bring us back, y…

That's just horrible. They should at least reimburse travel fees.

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#39
For some schools it might be possible to have full in-person classes safely. I think Caltech could do it, and maybe MIT. Maybe Harvey Mudd, too. Oh, and probably the US military academies.

Here's how I imagine it could work at Caltech.

1. For undergraduates, give everyone a rapid response COVID test when they arrive. Anyone who fails is quarantined until they are no longer infectious.

2. Once an undergraduate is cleared to move in, they must not leave campus for the rest of the term. This should be fairly easy. When I was there, most people only had to leave on weekend, because food was only served as part of your room & board contract during weekdays. That could be extended to cover weekends during COVID. Most other things that we used to leave campus for back then are now readily obtain online for delivery.

It is #2 that I think would be problematic at many schools. I recall that earlier in the pandemic some told students to not leave campus but they were not obeyed.

At Caltech, every undergraduate could understand the science and the mathematical models behind the policy, and see that it is correct. Also, violating the policy after you agreed to it would probably be seen as an honor code violation, which the students take very seriously.

Same for MIT and Harvey Mudd on the science aspect, although I'm not quite sure about MIT. MIT does offer undergraduate degrees in quite a few fields that aren't STEM, such as music, theater arts, global studies and languages, and several others, and I'm not sure how much STEM people in those majors have to take. (Caltech has non-STEM degrees too, such as English, but they still have to take the same calculus, physics, and chemistry that STEM majors have to take--when I was there that was two years of calculus and two years of physics and I think a year of chemistry, although I believe now it is just one year of calculus because nowadays almost everyone has had high school calculus).

For the military academies I assume the students would stay in line because they could be ordered to, and obeying orders is a big deal at those places.

3. OK, we've got a COVID free collection of undergraduates. But to have in-person classes we need someone to teach them. Professors don't usually live on campus, so the "once verified as clean never leave" approach won't work for them.

This could probably be handled by having professors on days they are teaching take a rapid response test in the morning, early enough to have results before their first class.

4. For graduate students that live on campus and are not married (or are married but their spouse is also a graduate student at the same school), a similar approach to that for undergraduates could work.

These graduate students could also handle much of the teaching of undergraduate classes, reducing the need for professors to come in.

5. For researchers not involved in teaching, and other staff, you could probably arrange so that they and the students (undergraduates plus whatever graduate students are serving as teachers) do not come in contact.

6. Reorganize classes as far so they are done Hogwarts style. Have separate classes for students living in Ricketts House, Dabney House, Blacker House, and so on.

Couple this with regular testing. The idea is that if someone in one house does get COVID, you find it with the rapid testing, and you can quarantine that house. Since they only have classes with members in their own house, there is a good chance this will catch it before they have spread it to the other houses.

However, just because it might be doable doesn't necessarily mean it is worthwhile.

It would take a lot of planning and a lot of schedule manipulation and choreographing movements around campus to make it so if someone does get it, it is found out before they had spread it beyond a well defined sub-population that is easily quarantined. That might require too much control, except maybe at the military academies.

Re: Stanford pulls plug on the return of freshmen and sophomores to campus

#40
post #39

For some schools it might be possible to have full in-person classes safely. I think Caltech could do it, and maybe MIT. Maybe Harvey Mudd, too. Oh, and probably the US military academies. Here's how I imagine it could work at Caltech. 1. For undergraduates, give everyone a rapid response COVID test when they arrive. Anyone who fails is quarantined until they are no longer infectious. 2. Once an undergraduate is clea…

I'm a student at a much smaller university than Stanford. I can tell you with confidence your statement of students not leaving campus once they move in cannot work. For one, consider the students who live in off-campus apartments. How are they going to get food? At my school, meal plans cost a crapton of money, and it's a lot cheaper to just buy groceries and cook for yourself.

Even if you forbade those students from coming to campus, how would you prevent students from leaving? Barricade them in? Our shortened fall break heavily encouraged students to stay on campus, but so many people left to see their families. It's not realistic.

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