Stripe bans Trump campaign • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#451

Post by incrudible » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

ShamelessC wrote: post #429

incrudible wrote: post #312

I encourage everyone to enable “showdead” in this thread to see which standards are being applied for flagging.

I encourage people to use Hacker News whichever way they want to. Many people respect this forum as a place for intelligent discussion. Unfounded claims that the election was stolen is not intelligent discussion. Unfounded claims that "ANTIFA" existed in any sort of widespread, organized fashion during the black lives matter protests are not intelligent discussion. Whataboutism surrounding the treatment of occasional…

Again, I encourage everyone to enable “showdead” and see for themselves to what degree your representation of what is being posted here matches what is being flagged.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#452

Post by ashayh » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #101

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if you were paying attention last week, but the mob literally came for the members of Congress. There are wrong opinions, and then there is “six million Jews were not enough” and “hang the Vice President”, and a violent mob attacking the Capitol. No one is under any obligation to tolerate such actions in a civil society. If I advocate for your murder, am I just expressing an opinion that should be conseq…

The mob has been coming for law enforcement and federal buildings in many major cities in America for nine months now. This mob actively organized on Twitter and other social media. Where was the outrage in June? Most of the organizations that organized this destruction still have their Twitter accounts.

Attacking people protesting for racial justice is nothing new. https://twitter.com/BerniceKing/status/1300196044693741574/p...

Same accusations were made against peaceful many time in history.

There is also evidence of police instigating violence: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/26/opinion/blm-p...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#453

Post by pmiller2 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #246

AYBABTME wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has restrictions on free speech that prevent things like saying hateful stuff. And so far Canada looks pretty democratic and fair to me. Have a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Can...

Actually it's fraught with issues. "Hate speech" was used to stop the republishing of the cartoons that got the Danish guy murdered. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-im-withdra...

So what?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#454

Post by npunt » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

trustfundbaby wrote: post #279

I was on the fence about this, but reading the comments convinced me it was the absolute right decision. The fact that all these institutions just allowed this horrible hateful speech for four years, in the name of free speech etc, despite all the harassment, harm (mental and otherwise) it caused to so many people in America actually emboldened so many to the extent that now that they crossed this invisible line, the…

Your point about the 'invisible line' is astute. We're in a crisis of perception and reality right now, and this has caused many to lose sight of the very real lines that we have agreed upon to preserve society and democracy.

I think the other important factor here is we are in a very vulnerable moment right now because we are in the midst of a transition of power. It takes time to transfer the apparatus and operations of state, and during this time there is a power vacuum that can be taken advantage of by adversaries foreign and domestic. Every state throughout history has struggled in these times.

The failure to secure the Capitol was in no small part due to how the President has run the state in the waning months of his term. His cabinet and administration are running a skeleton crew, he's acting erratically, and he's making false claims about election results and inciting crowds in a bid to stay in power. Whether one supports his policies or not, it should be abundantly clear right now that his actions and rhetoric put the country in further danger during this vulnerable time, and that perhaps he need not have access to platforms that make this easier and more convenient. It should be hard to dismantle the state, to whip people into a frenzy, to cause the damage that has been caused.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#455

Post by camhart » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #407

camhart wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe Trump was trying to overthrow the government? Had that been his real intent I'm fairly certain it would have had a more significant outcome beyond people stealing random envelops and podiums. It was a protest that went too far. We've seen plenty of this occur from both sides in the past year.

> Do you honestly believe Trump was trying to overthrow the government? Yes, just like I think that was the US’s goal in Cuba with the Bay of Pigs. And just as with the Bay of Pigs, the active agents that were sent off were expendable and abandoned once it didn't work. > Had that been his real intent I'm fairly certain it would have had a more significant outcome beyond people stealing random envelops and podiums. Mu…

The officer was killed with a fire extinguisher. I don't mean to downplay the tragedy of his death. But using a fire extinguisher certainly sounds a lot more like a protest gone too far than a president trying to over throw the government.

Do I need to remind you that Trump encouraged the protest to be peaceful? Then released a video telling everyone to go home, peacefully? Those involved in the violence are being arrested.

"People" online have held up bloody Trump heads, wished for Trump to die. The extreme left isn't this super peaceful always tolerant group. The extreme right isn't either.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#456

Post by pmiller2 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

staunch wrote: post #171

@dang there is some clearly abusive use of flagging to silence opposing views in this thread. A sign of just how intolerant so many people have become. Please do something about it, like removing flag permissions from these users or making flagged comments remain visible. This behavior is toxic.

Excuse me for not tolerating fascism.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#457

Post by postalrat » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:02 AM UTC

darkwizard42 wrote: post #448

postalrat wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't you blaming the security at the capital? Isn't it there fault the rioters got as far as they did?

Yes, but... that doesn't justify entering the capital or climbing the building either. The state of security isn't the topic of discussion above.

It should be. It's the reason those people got into the capital building.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#458

Post by pmiller2 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

camhart wrote: post #385

Trasmatta wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You're really trying to compare what some randos do on Twitter to what the President of the United States did on Wednesday? Really think about it: the President of the United States incited a mob to attack the Capitol to prevent the certification of the vote of his political opponent. He did this by pushing constant lies and propaganda for months, and urging his followers to "fight" for him. Go watch his speech…

Do you honestly believe Trump was trying to overthrow the government? Had that been his real intent I'm fairly certain it would have had a more significant outcome beyond people stealing random envelops and podiums. It was a protest that went too far. We've seen plenty of this occur from both sides in the past year.

He was trying to overturn the result of a democratically conducted election. You don't get to "both sides" this.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#459

Post by ffggvv » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

welp, guess stripe is actually evil. that sucks because i considered working for them in the future (had an offer from them before), but guess not anymore.

plus their equity vesting structure is absolute trash and doesn't allow employees to get any gains from the stock rising before vest. stay away.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#460

Post by ashayh » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:05 AM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #406

sdwa wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this at all and I am tired of seeing "sensible" people here explain how it's important to reach out to fascists and make them feel loved. You're only advocating further normalisation of fascism, and depriving them of the consequences of their actions—consequences that have always been a part of civil society. What's more, that you seem to be more preoccupied with not upsetting these fascists rather…

Just categorizing everyone protesting as "fascists" is ignorant. These people think the election was rigged, and they don't trust institutions. They think that our democracy is at risk, and your solution is to push them, deplatform them, and remove all hope of legal political influence? Reacting to this anxiety with force is going to cause a war if it continues.

> These people think the election was rigged, and they don't trust institutions.

The don't come up with these conclusions themselves. Only one very influential "leader", with a Twitter following of 88M, has been claiming elections are a fraud in America:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-longstanding-history-c...

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37673797

Appeasing his followers has been tried for the past ~5ish years. That led to Jan 6. Further appeasement will lead to worse outcomes unless trump is politically and legally, and _socially_ contained.