GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked • Hacker News Board

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#401

Post by proactivesvcs » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #382

proactivesvcs wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's perfectly valid criticism in its lambasting of the bug itself as well as its vintage. When I want to upload a screenshot, photo or video to an email, an IM, a web page etc., I really do not want to send the wrong one.

It absolutely is valid criticism. It was more the snarky "and therefore commercial software is better than free software" stuff that rubbed me the wrong way.

At the risk of splitting hairs, to me it reads more that the author is slating free software (or perhaps the only available free software), rather than praising commercial software. I think I read the article as a bit of a "stream of consciousness rant" and often give the spewers of such words a bit of leeway for interpretation. I've written in a state of mind of frustration and later thought "Yeah you did go a bit over the top there, but it's a reflection of your state of mind at the time".

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#402

Post by zapzupnz » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

kergonath wrote: post #275

zapzupnz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a save panel is a save dialogue. It’s just Apple terminology. > I don’t quite get the point of dragging a file to a save dialog at all though? On macOS (since forever) and iOS (since 11), there is a heavy focus on drag. You should be able to drag anything from any app to any other app and something should happen. This is facilitated both by system-level frameworks (so that all apps can gain correct drag-handling…

Entirely agree with et dry thing you said. I just wanted to say, re > For example, proxy icons The way they are buried in Big Sur, and often invisible unless you mouse over where they are by accident is my biggest gripe with the update. This is fundamental in how we interact with documents on that platform, and one of its great features. What were they thinking?

I suppose it comes down to the fact that sidebars can now inhabit the space usually reserved for title bars. It’s not a design decision against which I have any opposition so long as draggable space remains (and there usually is; I complained to Apple during the Big Sur beta period and they made some spacing adjustments).

But I agree, those icons coming and going can make using them something of a pain. It also makes less clear what apps actually have them. An option in System Preferences to make proxy icons show all the time would be lovely.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#403

Post by efreak » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

jfoster wrote: post #212

buckminster wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bad but it's not unusual. There are similar issues in Firefox and Windows. Nobody gets UI asynchrony right. There are race conditions in everything. It's particularly noticeable with a slow computer.

It's akin to typing and having the characters appear out of order, isn't it? Are those particular keys more difficult to process?

Only if each key has its own function to process that keystroke, and some keystrokes had to do more processing and thus take more time about it. Selecting an item in a list view is a fast, simple process; what happens after that isn't up to the list view anymore.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#404

Post by fnord123 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

rablackburn wrote: post #384

fnord123 wrote: post #348

There's a lot of discussion around the motivating example but the thesis is as follows: "This is why Free desktop operating systems are a joke and haven’t been popularly adopted. It’s little things like this that add up. Why was there a Windows monopoly? I think it’s a stretch to just blame it on OEM bundling. No, it’s legit because there isn’t anything else." The thesis is incorrect. There was Mac, OS/2, BeOS, Amiga…

(in the context of consumer computing) The unfortunate reality is that because Windows was so dominant for so long you either have to a) conform to their interaction paradigms to not frustrate users or b) create something incredibly polished and simple that it 'Just Works' how users expect it to (ie Apple). Once you have people on-boarding to your platform you can distinguish yourself and build out your own paradigms…

The article is an essay written upside down. The thesis is that there was no quality competition to windows and that's why it is dominant. This is plainly incorrect. The era when Windows gained total dominance was when everyone was getting daily or weekly bsods.

It is a deep and complex topic and it wasn't 'heres a bug I don't like'. Microsoft had a monopoly on the sneakernet: file formats like xls, doc, and the like needed windows computers. They had an amazing sales force. They did the illegal partnering I mentioned. Loads of aspects. Quality is not a primary component here. Just like the inherent quality of javascript doesn't drive it. It's the platform and the platform effects and so on.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#405

Post by vortico » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

I've had a thought in the back of my mind to write a replacement/alternative for the GTK file picker for years. I've probably spent at least a day total using it throughout my life, so it would make sense to spend a few days on it to help myself and others. To improve it I would remove several features I don't need, add features I would use, and repair subtle but important workflow issues such as key commands and widget focus issues.

But how extensible is it? Would it require a recompile of GTK? Or perhaps a shared library plugin? Realistically, the likelihood of me actually diving into this is low due to life keeping me too busy.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#406

Post by zapzupnz » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

baxuz wrote: post #269

zapzupnz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a save panel is a save dialogue. It’s just Apple terminology. > I don’t quite get the point of dragging a file to a save dialog at all though? On macOS (since forever) and iOS (since 11), there is a heavy focus on drag. You should be able to drag anything from any app to any other app and something should happen. This is facilitated both by system-level frameworks (so that all apps can gain correct drag-handling…

I love this comment. One of the reasons I prefer using MacOS as my daily driver even though I have a lot of complaints. Sadly, due to the ever-increasing number of non-Cocoa apps (primarily Electron ones), these features are getting the boot.

Indeed. Little things like Apple’s implementation of drag-and-drop being lost in this sea of ugly, slow Electron apps is something that you just can’t explain to Electron developers — they make for Windows first, they have no idea what Mac users complain about, and even when we tell them they think we’re being silly.

As per the comment to which I replied asked (although I believe GP asked in good faith): “why would you want to do that anyway?”

Because that’s how we do it on macOS. That could be why we use macOS. If you care so much about letting macOS users access your app that you went with Electron rather than writing something Windows-only, it shouldn’t be hard to learn to respect the Mac platform and, more importantly, its users.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#407

Post by Spivak » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:20 AM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #243

As a KDE user I wouldn't care what the Gnome people do if their BS wouldn't affect me. But it does, and it's annoying! They refuse since over a decade to implement some generic way to open the file-picker native to the running DE. They force their garbage usability on everybody, even people that would prefer not to use "anything Gnome". Same issue with CSDs, by the way. Like I said: They can have their broken stuff a…

You can actually fix that! Set GTK_USE_PORTAL=1 in your environment and then basically all your GTK apps will use the platform file picker.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#408

Post by just_for_you » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

curt15 wrote: post #318

jdright wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and Gnome is in part responsible for a lot of "desktop" issues with linux. Distros must switch to KDE by default to help eliminate part of this stigma. KDE is so amazingly good that there is no excuse to keep using Gnome.

>KDE is so amazingly good that there is no excuse to keep using Gnome. IMO, one aspect where Gnome excels is its tight integration of alternative input methods. I remember it being controversial that Gnome blessed ibus over alternative engines, but as a result, setting up CJK input is simple and foolproof. Although I prefer KDE in every other way, I have never managed to get ibus working correctly in that environment…

CJK input magically working easily and reliably in Gnome is the pretty much the only reason I use it over KDE. And setting it up doesn't require following a wiki, using the commandline and/or having to edit obscure config files or messing around with weird GUI settings apps.

I have nothing against KDE by any means (I love it, and also really appreciate their initatives like KDEnlive, etc.), but I don't think I've ever gotten Japanese/Chinese input to work in it before. Maybe once, but then I gave up on finding a sane way to easily cycle between the different input types (eg, WinKey+Space).

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#409

Post by rablackburn » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

rubycon22 wrote: post #367

rablackburn wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have similar thoughts. I finally swapped to desktop linux last year and tried to be very mindful about all the little niggling issues I ran in to. I think the difference between an okay piece of software and a great piece of software is how cognizant the designers and developers are of these things. It's partially why I use an iphone now over android. Even if I disagree with how something is done it's usually evide…

Hello, just wanted to let you know you should probably use a different word instead of "niggling", just to be safe in case some day in the future someone may find your post and try to cast you as a racist. Or worst, it may be detected by an algorithm and your post could be demerited based on that parameter and you would not know why. While niggling is a legitimate word and has no racist origin, people may construe it…

While I appreciate you taking the time to write this note, I don't think I will edit the word.

The fact that it sometimes is being used by racists gives me a little pause (that's basically how semantic shift happens, and there comes a point where the new meaning eclipses the old), but I have never come across it in that context, whereas I see it used in it's original meaning commonly (and in professional contexts).

If someone tries to cast a comment of mine in a technical thread as racist I don't think changing my language is going to help.

Similarly I'm not so invested in my imaginary internet points that being flagged by such a poor future algorithm concerns me. If HN got to that point, I would probably have lost interest in it long before.

I'm here for interesting, technical discussion. Not for the zeitgeist's culture wars that are engulfing all the other platforms. With the exception of recent threads (which considering the tumultuous events that are happening, I understand), I find HN to be a lovely corner of the old web where users try to read each other's content in good faith.

Re: GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker and my toilets are blocked

#410

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #400

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On macOS and iOS, it’s not just built into every app, it’s built into the operating system itself. It’s a fundamental feature of Cocoa, open which all native apps are built, so every app gets the correct behaviour for free. Dragging and dropping is super powered on Apple platforms. This isn't true. It is true that it's built into the development tools and toolkits that Apple provide and expect you to use when writi…

My only response to that is apps that aren’t made to be good macOS citizens wouldn’t even vaguely register on my radar as ‘native’, even if they link against Cocoa. ‘Native’ on Apple platforms isn’t just a technical description, it’s also about UI and, more importantly, UX. Of course, Apple are starting to muddy the waters with UIKit for Mac — but even then, the fact that iOS apps can now run ‘natively’ on macOS goes…

> My only response to that is apps that aren’t made to be good macOS citizens wouldn’t even vaguely register on my radar as ‘native’, even if they link against Cocoa.

Sure. But two things:

1) I wasn't saying that an app that use nib-less techniques couldn't do the right thing - it could. It could appear totally native if someone just does the work.

2) There are several pro creativity apps (Logic, Mainstage being the biggest) that are actually Apple products but they do not adhere to Apple guidelines. They use non-standard widgets, do not fully follow desktop interactivity guidelines, use the keyboard in non-standard ways. So even within the set of Apple's own applications, there are things that are about as different as a Qt or GTK application might be.