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Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

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Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#151

Post by rckoepke »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #107
ithrow wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That extension is a competitive advantage that's crippling Jetbrains. Just business as usual.

I was honestly very surprised that Jetbrains didn't already have a remote plugin. I know that I wouldn't consider any new editor without one, as I almost always develop on a remote box.

I use JetBrain's remote python interpreter functionality[0] with great success and convenience. For anyone whose development environment is appropriate for its use, I honestly cannot recommend it highly enough. I generally can only use it when I'm running the full "Professional" license version, however.

This uses SSH and SCP to automatically deploy the code to the remote environment and run it with the interpreter on that machine, rather than your own local laptop/desktop. One advantage is that it does not require any special software to be installed on the remote server. VS Code's solution requires a pretty hefty installation consisting of basically an entire copy of VSCode onto the remote server.

The downside of JetBrain's approach... I believe that it requires a local copy of the files in order to perform the "LSP"-like syntax error highlighting / suggestion functionality that JetBrains software is so lauded for. This could be difficult/inconvenient if your codebase is particularly enormous, or if you aren't allowed to mirror it locally.

However, given the amount of support that JetBrains has for this kind of setup, I wouldn't be shocked to see an additional future option for something more in the style of "VS Code Remote Development"

0: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/configuring-remote-in...

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#152

Post by rckoepke »

belltaco wrote: post #142
ithrow wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That extension is a competitive advantage that's crippling Jetbrains. Just business as usual.

What's preventing Jetbrains from making their own remote plugin if it's really crippling them? Also Jetbrains IDEs are closed source software, unlike VS Code, why are we supposed to feel bad for them again? That they're not making even more money?

I note here, that JetBrains does have a somewhat analogous feature in their Professional license of PyCharm[0].

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25722765

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#153

Post by saagarjha »

vijucat wrote: post #109
saagarjha wrote: post #2

I hate to bring out the old “embrace, extend, extinguish” argument, but I honestly can’t think of any other reason for this. Visual Studio Code has gotten really popular lately, but I think very few people realize that many parts of it are closed source. And you can’t take extensions from the Microsoft store and use them in your own editor…this just seems designed to get people to use your editor, give them enough so…

Honest question: how is any firm meant to make any money in this worldview? If everything has to be Open Source, then maintenance contracts (which are completely optional) will be the only way to earn and will decimate revenues. Creating a beautiful and functional piece of software is hard work. We should be thankful that firms open source even parts of their product.

My issue is more with the fact that their extension perpetuates lock-in than it being closed source.

I have yet to get a good response to how to make money in a world where everything is open source.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#154

Post by [deleted] »

immigrantsheep wrote: post #33
alexfromapex wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft always does this, they fool people by pretending they’re in favor of open source or make something free but it’s just a trick used to bait and switch people into the proprietary anticompetitive Microsoft ecosystem. https://www.vox.com/2019/10/14/20910510/microsoft-government... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... .

Why should they open source everything? I never see anyone complaining how Apple doesn't open source Safari or XCode. I mean there are plenty other totally open source editors out there to choose from.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#155

Post by Wowfunhappy »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #91
alexfromapex wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not Safari, but they have open sourced WebKit and a lot of kernel modules and other useful things: https://developer.apple.com/opensource/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25675763

Saying Apple open sourced WebKit is a pretty funny way of seeing things.

They've been pretty good stewards though, for a long time.

I don't know how much of it is lip-service, but webkit.org talks about using webkit on non-Apple platforms, and webkit-gtk gets discussed on their mailing list.

It feels to me like a truly collaborative open-source project, in a way that's unlike most of what Apple does. Again, I don't know how much of this is an aberration, but I've always been impressed with the whole thing.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#156

Post by fartcannon »

hollerith wrote: post #101
fartcannon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's based on Atom, isn't it?

No, Atom and vscode depend on Electron, tho, so they embraced Electron.

Atom and electron were both the same project at one point, so we are splitting hairs. There's even a file properties screen capture where it says 'code' original name was atom.exe. See below

https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/04...

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#157

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

rckoepke wrote: post #151
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was honestly very surprised that Jetbrains didn't already have a remote plugin. I know that I wouldn't consider any new editor without one, as I almost always develop on a remote box.

I use JetBrain's remote python interpreter functionality[0] with great success and convenience. For anyone whose development environment is appropriate for its use, I honestly cannot recommend it highly enough. I generally can only use it when I'm running the full "Professional" license version, however. This uses SSH and SCP to automatically deploy the code to the remote environment and run it with the interpreter o…

Cool, good to know that it exists. I may have to push someone I'm working with onto it (assuming he has Pro, which he almost certainly does).

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#158

Post by petr_tik »

pritambaral wrote: post #137
petr_tik wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by forbidding the use of their LSPs in other editors How can they prevent my, let’s say vim, client from connecting to a closed-source server if they both speak the same protocol?

One way would be to make the closed-source server speak mostly-but-not-quite-the-same protocol.

Other servers like clangd have documented extensions, but I see your point. I’m glad the protocol is discussed and developed in the open - I think it’s really helped the IDE story in other editors.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#159

Post by oneplane »

immigrantsheep wrote: post #66
oneplane wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because those never were open source. Microsoft presented an open source editor, and an open source python language server, and an open source python checker, and then wants to replace those with closed source versions that you're not allowed to run anywhere else anymore.

And I'm sure you have other open source python language servers and open source python checkers for other open source editors. Nobody is locking you in here. Everyone is free to move to something else to write python.

That completely misses the point here... it's not about having a facility, it's about a change in direction that people don't like.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#160

Post by sn_master »

majkinetor wrote: post #113
turbinerneiter wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, but then they should please stop acting like they are the second coming of christ for Linux and Open Source. They are misleading their users.

Anybody can act like that. That is called freedom and is not limited to physical people but to corps as well. You can choose to avoid them, to publish against them, to influence others, to fork it, etc. That is your freedom. Why are we even talking about this ? Nobody owes you anything and vice-versa.

"Why are we even talking about this ?"

Politicians and cops have right to do a lot of things too. Just because it's your right, doesn't mean we have to agree with it and not talk about it.

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