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Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

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Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#61

Post by elric »

manigandham wrote: post #11

Similar to the recent actions by Twitter, Google, Apple and Amazon; Visa and Mastercard are private companies and can do whatever they want. Anyone who has an issue with what Visa/MC did must also take issue with the others.

> Anyone who has an issue with this must also take issue with the others.

Yeah .... no. For a variety of reasons. But for one, it's impossible to do business online if you're not in the good graces of major payment providers (assuming you want to get paid). It might be hard(er) to advertise your business if Twitter bans you, but that's in no way comparable to how essential Visa/MC are to any business.

Providers of critical infrastructure (payments, search, appstores, probably a few other things), when they're big enough to be a monopoly/duopoly, could really use more oversight. If you piss off Google/Apple, your business can be ruined, and you'll have virtually no recourse -- as evidenced by the frequent "google/apple killed my app" threads on HN.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#63

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

occamrazor wrote: post #55
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to revise my take on the "big tech takedown" when someone explains to me how a random member of the American public can pay a pornographic performer/model without using Visa/Mastercard and in less than 24 hours. If there were no alternatives to Twitter, Android, iOS and AWS then I'd be as unhappy about that as I am about Visa/Mastercard's decision here. However, it's my judgement that there are alternativ…

Android/iOS is a duopoly as pervasive as Visa/MasterCard. The ither examples only to a much lesser degree.

Well, here's the thing.

If you agree that the required ability is "use my portable cell-connected computing device to exchange messages with others on their similar devices", then absolutely, I agree that there's a duopoly there (I'm ignoring the possibility to use alternative app stores on Android, because it doesn't seem particularly central).

But if you instead think the required ability is "be able to exchange messages with others in more or less realtime", then the duopoly in the portable cell-connected computing device world is of much less importance.

For years, because I don't have a cell phone, I was excluded from communications taking place via SMS (there were a few 1-way linux-accessible gateways, but they didn't really change anything there). But I didn't feel that my ability to communicate with others was really particularly impaired, and eventually Telegram (and others came along) that I could use from a desktop, and I was more or less back at parity for "real time communication with others".

So whether or not the android/ios duopoly matters in this sort of instance depends on precisely what functionality it is that you think people have a "right" to ...

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#64

Post by leetcrew »

occamrazor wrote: post #55
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to revise my take on the "big tech takedown" when someone explains to me how a random member of the American public can pay a pornographic performer/model without using Visa/Mastercard and in less than 24 hours. If there were no alternatives to Twitter, Android, iOS and AWS then I'd be as unhappy about that as I am about Visa/Mastercard's decision here. However, it's my judgement that there are alternativ…

Android/iOS is a duopoly as pervasive as Visa/MasterCard. The ither examples only to a much lesser degree.

can someone ELI5 why Visa/MasterCard is frequently called a duopoly? as someone who mostly uses my amex and discover cards for day-to-day purchases, I don't really understand this. four major processors (two being their own issuers) seems like a decent amount of competition and diversity of offerings.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#65

Post by snarfy »

kbar13 wrote: post #57

sex work should be legalized and regulated, just like marijuana. sex work and porn has been a reality since the beginning of time, and making it "illegal" and letting it fester in dark corners is unhealthy. without proper education, acceptance, and oversight, it encourages predatory behavior and other mental health issues like porn addiction. you don't have to think "porn is good" or "prostitution is good" to acknowl…

It's America. Having sex outside of marriage is a sin while water is turned to wine.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#66

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

marcinzm wrote: post #35
bassman9000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would really be ideal if some of these sex workers could get their own platform. Then they'll go after the platform infrastructure (AWS), or any other fundamental aspect. Peer pressure. We've been warning for ages: the Cancel Everyone game the NYT and others with very loud voices are playing is a dangerous one.

OnlyFans seems to be having no issues. I do find it funny how "this site is filled with a lot of rape and child porn" is being framed as "it's being cancelled for no reason." No, there is a reason and other sites with better policies aren't being targeted.

Pornhub was targeted not because of the content, but because it was by far the 800-lb gorilla in the room. Facebook has far more numerous instances of cheese pizza being thrown around but Facebook is a far more sympathetic entity than something with the name "Pornhub". The people who went after Pornhub were looking for any angle that would be palatable to the Left in a bid to remove adult material from the US landscape. There is a reason that they changed their name from Morality In Media to something else.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#67

Post by slg »

manigandham wrote: post #11

Similar to the recent actions by Twitter, Google, Apple and Amazon; Visa and Mastercard are private companies and can do whatever they want. Anyone who has an issue with what Visa/MC did must also take issue with the others.

This is a bizarre comment. The complaint isn't that Pornhub, Visa, or Mastercard lack the right to do what they are doing. People are explaining reasons why it is a bad decision and those reasons aren't relevant to Twitter, Google, Apple, and Amazon. There is nothing contradictory about someone who believes these companies have the right to kick people off their platform while also thinking that these companies can make mistakes regarding who they kick off.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#68

Post by manigandham »

elric wrote: post #61
manigandham wrote: post #11

Similar to the recent actions by Twitter, Google, Apple and Amazon; Visa and Mastercard are private companies and can do whatever they want. Anyone who has an issue with what Visa/MC did must also take issue with the others.

> Anyone who has an issue with this must also take issue with the others. Yeah .... no. For a variety of reasons. But for one, it's impossible to do business online if you're not in the good graces of major payment providers (assuming you want to get paid). It might be hard(er) to advertise your business if Twitter bans you, but that's in no way comparable to how essential Visa/MC are to any business. Providers of cr…

None of this is considered critical infrastructure today, that's the point. What's important to you is entirely subjective and these are private companies that can apply their terms however they see fit. Visa/MC can easily say that ACH and cash payments exist as an alternative.

If you feel that monopolistic powers by major tech companies need more oversight then that should apply equally. I don't see why communications networks are any less important than payment networks.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#69

Post by sweeneyrod »

kbar13 wrote: post #57

sex work should be legalized and regulated, just like marijuana. sex work and porn has been a reality since the beginning of time, and making it "illegal" and letting it fester in dark corners is unhealthy. without proper education, acceptance, and oversight, it encourages predatory behavior and other mental health issues like porn addiction. you don't have to think "porn is good" or "prostitution is good" to acknowl…

The porn that has existed since the dawn of time (I guess cave paintings) is qualitatively different from PornHub content. Arguably even there is even a qualitative difference from the situation even 15 years ago. Then, very few 10-year-olds would have had access to unlimited amounts of high definition hardcore porn; now probably the majority in developed countries can.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#70

Post by adrian_b »

occamrazor wrote: post #55
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to revise my take on the "big tech takedown" when someone explains to me how a random member of the American public can pay a pornographic performer/model without using Visa/Mastercard and in less than 24 hours. If there were no alternatives to Twitter, Android, iOS and AWS then I'd be as unhappy about that as I am about Visa/Mastercard's decision here. However, it's my judgement that there are alternativ…

Android/iOS is a duopoly as pervasive as Visa/MasterCard. The ither examples only to a much lesser degree.

The comparison is not valid.

For example my phones use Android, but I do not have a Google account.

There exists no legal action that could be done by Google and that could influence anything that I am using my phone for.

On the other hand, if Visa and Mastercard would decide to not let me buy something, that would be very bad for me, because I buy almost nothing with cash and most things that interest me could not be bought with cash anyway, because they cannot be found in the shops from my close neighborhood.

So the monopoly of Visa and Mastercard really matters and it is very hard to circumvent. That of Apple and Google, much less so.

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