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Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

element.io

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Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#41

Post by kitkat_new »

_1100 wrote: post #30
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see people avoiding using phones even though neo-nazi, criminals, redheads and people with sexual preferences radically different from theirs use them constantly. Matrix is not a platform, it's a protocol and some implementation software developed in the open.

And these distinctions are esoteric to most. If the headline “(extremist group) use / flock to matrix to plan (nefarious thing)” shows up in the news, these distinctions hardly matter anymore.

Do you think they notice that Element uses Matrix as a protocol?

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#42

Post by karatinversion »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #27
Steltek wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the gold rush for decentralized, censorship-resistant platforms for the Right to jump to. This is bad for any mainstream ambitions by the Matrix team. If it becomes the next Gab/Parler, normal people will avoid being associated with it. I know this association would absolutely sink my friends exploring the platform further while we're exploring alternatives for when Google Hangouts is decommissioned.

I don't see people avoiding using phones even though neo-nazi, criminals, redheads and people with sexual preferences radically different from theirs use them constantly. Matrix is not a platform, it's a protocol and some implementation software developed in the open.

So, it’s important to get this right. In reputational effects, like this one, we don’t care about

P(I use this | I’m a bad person)

because, like you point out, this obscures cases, like breathing air, where P(I use this) is already high. Instead, we care about

P(I’m a bad person | I use this)

And we especially care if this conditional probability is perceived to be high. This is because then your potential users will worry that if they use your product, others will make the (justified!) Bayesian inference that they are bad people. Because they don’t want to be seen to be bad people, they will avoid it.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#44

Post by generalizations »

johnchristopher wrote: post #32
remram wrote: post #10

I'm surprised Matrix is on the front page as much as it is. I mean, it's cool tech, and I use it myself, but it really seems like it's up there every other day. Is there an update that warrants this new post?

People are migrating en masse from WhatsApp to Signal and Telegram. I am pretty sure it's ruffling some feathers considering the vocal people defending and promoting Matrix and federation in every Signal thread and considering this informal poll: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669864 Telegram 806 points Zom 3 points Viber 15 points Threema 69 points Signal 1699 points Discord 102 points Matrix (added after 25…

Far as I can tell, matrix needs to focus harder on the user experience. It was a pain to get set up on.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#45

Post by antpls »

For anyone wondering how it compares to Signal privacy wise:

Signal works with a contact list, for private 1 to 1 and private groups. You need a phone number to use it, and they claim to encrypt almost all metadata, such as message senders. Signal claims they cannot read the content nor the history of users actions (but you have to trust them on that, they claim to use SGX enclave stuff, but can anyone technically verify that they do what they say they are doing?)

Element works with rooms, there is no contact list. A 1 to 1 conversation is a room with 2 people. The homeserver Matrix.org stores all metadata and they are readable (metadata are not private/not encrypted) by Matrix for some features to work. You only need a nickname to use it (at least for now). The content of conversations are e2e encrypted. In theory, i understand it would be possible for a matrix server to delete any metadata/messages once messages are delivered, but some features would not work, and you would also have to trust the server to actually delete the metadata.

Would be happy to read anyone who could correct or complete me.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#46

Post by profsnuggles »

kitkat_new wrote: post #37
profsnuggles wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I was running it on a 2GB VPS, I have since November switched to a 4GB VPS, no issues since then but it's still early days. I haven't benchmarked either VPS, the 2GB I had a single dedicated CPU core, some 3.5+ghz xenon. I didn't check what my cpu allotment was on the new VPS, it was a $65 a year black friday thing. Moderation is not an issue, I only have 5 users other than myself. Here is the last time I compla…

I think you definitely should try PostgreSQL

I am using postgresql now. That is not a silver bullet for anything though. I switched to postgresql early on (when I first started using matrix I think synapse only supported sqlite?) and I've had less disk space & memory trouble using sqlite than I have postgresql.

Of course I was using sqlite when there weren't nearly as many users as there are today or when I had federation disabled.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#47

Post by Shared404 »

monopoledance wrote: post #13
agilob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also called Vector before.

Both sound better than 'element' to me. "Comms app" isn't exactly what I expect to be 'atomic', or 'simple', either. Aaand "Element Matrix Services"? bitch, please... XD 'Element' is so un-cybery, feels dated. First association is Bam Margera and teenage skateboard consumer culture. The uncool one, lacking punk rock and attitude. Such a 2000s word. Anyway, naming things is hard and annoying, so I am glad they found s…

I agree. I believe the change in name was at least partially to make it easier for IT to sell to management.

I don't envy the person trying to convince their manager to switch to Riot.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#48

Post by redsolver »

antpls wrote: post #45

For anyone wondering how it compares to Signal privacy wise: Signal works with a contact list, for private 1 to 1 and private groups. You need a phone number to use it, and they claim to encrypt almost all metadata, such as message senders. Signal claims they cannot read the content nor the history of users actions (but you have to trust them on that, they claim to use SGX enclave stuff, but can anyone technically ve…

The main difference is that you can choose your own homeserver and communicate with users on other homeservers which makes the Matrix protocol decentralized or at least distributed. So when I'm @redsolver:matrix.org, I can still chat with @bob:example.com just like with other distributed systems like email.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#49

Post by pkulak »

profsnuggles wrote: post #17
remram wrote: post #10

I'm surprised Matrix is on the front page as much as it is. I mean, it's cool tech, and I use it myself, but it really seems like it's up there every other day. Is there an update that warrants this new post?

It's probably on the front page because of the Prosody post that is on the front page. Matrix is on the front page because it's really the only open protocol that has a chance of gaining non-technical users. I run a matrix server, which has been nothing but a constant pain. My friends that use it can also use my ircv3 server or xmpp server that I run that use no resources and take up none of my time with maintenance.…

I remember I spent about 10 minutes looking into setting up my own Matrix server. Seemed like a good day of work, and then I would still need to figure out how to support media uploads and E2E.

The real kicker is that having the data on my own server is certainly nice, but I just don't think it's less likely to be exposed while I'm holding it vs someone else. I remember when everyone had a self-hosted WordPress blog. Eventually you'd get tired of applying patches every 2 weeks and instantly get added to a bot farm. No thank you.

Re: Element – All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations

#50

Post by arghwhat »

antpls wrote: post #45

For anyone wondering how it compares to Signal privacy wise: Signal works with a contact list, for private 1 to 1 and private groups. You need a phone number to use it, and they claim to encrypt almost all metadata, such as message senders. Signal claims they cannot read the content nor the history of users actions (but you have to trust them on that, they claim to use SGX enclave stuff, but can anyone technically ve…

Matrix: Every home server involved in the chat stores the message, and messages on matrix are therefore most considered permanent.

As matrix is federated, every user can be on their own homeserver, which will be storing a copy of all messages seen by that user.

E2E is more recent and optional. Most rooms are not E2E, and have browsable history.

Signal: Only E2E, with clients themselves storing the only copy of messages. You can only see messages that a device has received.

Any app you did not write/review and compile requires trusting the author, so this is not a signal specific concern. A crypto app can always store and send keys to a server if it wanted.

However, unlike WhatsApp, these apps are open source and can be reviewed and compiled if you so desire.

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