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Software Is Drowning the World

jamesabley.com

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Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#41

Post by peteradio »

nlitened wrote: post #17
brody_hamer wrote: post #6

Totally agree. If the new version of a library requires a slightly updated usage; please just give me simple examples of how to update my code. Include a simple regex. And while we’re are it, let’s standardize how we provide those upgrade scripts. So when snyk tells me there’s and issue, it also easy to find and apply the necessary code changes (at least for the simplest 90% of cases). Like python’s “2to3”. It’s not…

How about something new: release only backward-compatible updates unless absolutely necessary.

For real. If its not acting the same, then its not the same thing, give it a different name and release your 0.1. I guess maybe we run out of namespace with this methodology? Suddenly we end up with software named axsladkjfaksldjf, and then hackers start camping on axsladejfaksldjf

Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#42

Post by pdimitar »

xyzelement wrote: post #31
bsenftner wrote: post #4

I think a real issue we developers face is the management and client attitude that software does not require maintenance. Time and time again, the fact that our completed projects require maintenance or they simply fail with newer systems is greeted with shock, debate and accusation of deceit.

Have you tried explaining it in a different way to them? Imagine you brought your car for an oil change and the mechanic says "uhh yeah maybe you can get new oil next year but for the next few months we need to... Uh... Address technical debt in your car... So umm... It's gonna cost you thousands of dollars and you aren't going to get anything you perceive as a change" You'd think they are ripping you off.

Sadly most programmers are introverted and not well-articulated (which is much worse than being introverted). So when it comes to them you are quite right.

However, as a counterpoint to yours, even those of us who can communicate quite clearly get met with very ugly accusations of ripping customers off. People simply come to you with a preconceived notion about how much something must cost (in terms of money, effort and time) and they are absolutely not willing to change that notion -- even if they are on the side of the pure imagination and you are on the side of the facts.

It's basic psychology that many of us had to learn even if we never wanted to.

Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#43

Post by throw0101a »

Micoloth wrote: post #37
stupidcar wrote: post #2

Things break down and things eventually need to be replaced. This has been a fact of life since time immemorial. I do tire of programmers acting as if the necessity of maintenance is some novel and unexpected problem, unique to software development, presented with hyperbolic titles like "software is drowning the world". Is physical infrastructure "drowning the world" because it needs to be maintained?

To be fair, I don't agree with this point of view at all. Things in the physical world break down beacuse they are made of matter, and the entire concept of "working" is a very simplified modeling of their behaviour that doesn't include second-order effects like tear,consumption of materials etc. Code, on the other hand, is a social constrution but entirely confined in an abstract and mathematical world. The _only_ r…

> Code, on the other hand, is a social constrution but entirely confined in an abstract and mathematical world.

Brian Cantrill had a good observation in a 2007 Google TechTalk introducing Dtrace:

> In software the blueprints are the machine. In software once you design the thing you've built it: the design is the machine. That's why the waterfall model is so fundamentally flawed. This idea that you could design the design before you design it, which is what the waterfall model is essentially saying, is flawed. Software is both, it's both information and machine. (@3m40s)

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6chLw2aodYQ

I originally ran across it on Google Video:

* http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8002801113289007228

Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#45

Post by [deleted] »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #26

> Every time you decide to solve a problem with code, you are committing part of your future capacity to maintaining and operating that code. Software is never done. I am clipping this for use in future internal discussions. I have trouble communicating this point, this sentence does so concisely.

[deleted]

Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#47

Post by bob1029 »

In a business setting, making technology choices is hard. The only thing that is harder than making a bunch of technology choices one time is making them constantly.

Pick technologies that are stable over time frames measured in years, not months. You will never be able to construct any great works on top of fields of quicksand.

For example - Instead of using a fun & shiny new language you read about on HN to construct your company's new loan processing backend, perhaps consider technologies such as Java or .NET. Instead of using a database engine that was developed this decade, look at something that has already stood the test of 1-2 prior decades.

Now, 100% of everything I have just said is totally irrelevant if we are talking about software engineering just for the sake of it (fun, hobby, exploration, etc). This is the important distinction. If the livelihoods of your coworkers depend on you not making a bad technology choice, try to go with the safe bet. Separation of hobby & work mindset can solve a lot of this mess.

Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#49

Post by machiaweliczny »

pdimitar wrote: post #29
gchamonlive wrote: post #20

I think computation is still converging. It is too new to be expected to abide to universal standards. Cars, for instance have been around for over a century and they are still subject to change in standards, mainly because of safety and efficiency, just like software, but to a different degree. We should, however, have these kinds of discussion because I don't think we should outsource this debate to corporations. B…

The problem is financial incentives. I am not paid to devise such universal tooling. It's also a huge undertaking and much harder than all of my everyday's work. It's exploratory work that has the potential to revolutionize huge chunks of the programming area. And I don't want to only be paid an average salary for it. But... an excellent salary (above-average, maybe even above-high) would motivate me and no, I won't…

IMO goverments should invest into such stuff

Re: Software Is Drowning the World

#50

Post by blandflakes »

stupidcar wrote: post #2

Things break down and things eventually need to be replaced. This has been a fact of life since time immemorial. I do tire of programmers acting as if the necessity of maintenance is some novel and unexpected problem, unique to software development, presented with hyperbolic titles like "software is drowning the world". Is physical infrastructure "drowning the world" because it needs to be maintained?

A lot of programmers I know have no hard feelings about needing to maintain software. My product managers, on the other hand, don't necessarily understand that every line of code has potential long-term cost (and obviously, they ideally also have long-term benefit).
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