Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#991

Post by logicchains » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 5:17 AM UTC

design-material wrote: post #887

logicchains wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine: a leader calls for a certain racial, ethnic, or religious group to be barred entry to their country. A religious group is not a race. When China persecuted the Falun Gong, nobody called them racist. You could say it's islamaphobic, but that connotates an irrational fear. It's not completely irrational when the values of many adherents to that religion differ so significantly from secular American values: pe…

The Pew data seems to refute your point: it highlights opposing views across Muslim nations when it comes to redistributive justice - some nations are along the same lines as mainstream American thought, others aren't i.e. there isn't a universal, shared set of 'Muslim values' that can be said to clash with 'American values' And fair enough, it's not strictly racist. I believe the semantics here don't alter the spiri…

>I'm not entirely convinced by the claim that one's religious choice being a choice means that it's not wrong to discriminate against them; what would your stance be on what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs? (And - dare I ask - what does that then mean about your stance on the Nazi's policies?)

What the Chinese allegedly did to the Uighurs, or what the Nazis did to the Jews, is categorically wrong regardless of how it was justified; nobody has the right to sterilise or kill innocent people. But it's reasonable to argue that when a bunch of people come together to form a "country", they have a right to decide who's allowed to enter that country. Discriminating based on country of origin is not unpredecented: it's already way harder for an Indian or Chinese to get an American visa, for instance.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#992

Post by agensaequivocum » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 5:51 AM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #903

agensaequivocum wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple should probably remove Safari since there's too much unmoderated content on the open web.

Apple doesn’t take any responsibility for websites. They moderate the App Store. Anything on the App Store is there with Apple’s blessing. That includes the content inside third party apps that is only created by its users. Apple just don’t want to be associated with it.

And Parler doesn't take responsibility for user generated content. So how is that any different?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#993

Post by nailer » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

jzoch wrote: post #177

nailer wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's America. People arm themselves. It was far less violent and less of a show of power than taking over a police station and city blocks from the other group.

Gun shots were fired into the senate chamber.

And? 24 people died from last year's left wing riots.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#994

Post by Eugeleo » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #976

alkonaut wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be accused of creating a platform for nazis and pedophiles unless you remove that content. And rightly so. Allowing everything isn’t a shield from that accusation, nor should it be. Good faith moderation is. Since there are platforms without that content, the effect of starting a new platform allowing it is that you get a disproportionate amount of the most extreme content. You become the gab or parler or t_d.w…

>You’d be accused of creating a platform for nazis and pedophiles unless you remove that content. And rightly so. I don't agree with this at all. You realize 70+ million people are not nazis, right? They're normal people like you or me who's voice just happens to not be amplified by the media/movies. Platform would ideally provide controls for you to hide things you don't want to see. Hide nazis, hide perverts, hide…

> You realize 70+ million people are not nazis, right?

(not the OP) Sure, but that's just a strawman, as nobody is saying they are. Twitter, Facebook, and Apple are specifically trying NOT to deplatform all of the 70 mil "alright" people, but only those few who go against the laws, right? Nobody's banning r/concervative, only the T_D got taken down.

> Platform would ideally provide controls for you to hide things you don't want to see. [...] This is the future and what we should be aiming for.

I like this idea very much! This already happens to some level, by following only certain accounts, being part of certain subreddits, or by switching to certain platforms, but I think a "physical" explicit checkmark to hide specific themes might make people think more about what they're actually doing — closing their eyes and ears and hiding themselves in echo chambers.

With that said, I'm sure we both can agree that most companies wouldn't want to provide a platform for nazis and pedophiles (...to discuss their nazi and pedophile things), even if the other users could hide their posts. Because, why would you do that? F*ck them.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#995

Post by FireBeyond » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #860

burnthrow wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Many of Us will return ... carrying Our weapons. ... We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match. However, the police are NOT our enemy, unless they choose to be! This is so embarrassing, you'd think people so hard right would remember the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Technology lols at their "numbers."

I don't think Trump supporters support the invasion of Iraq. Trump called it a disaster while running, for example.

You can call its implementation a disaster while still agreeing with it. Trump has repeatedly talked about how we just need to go in there and take the oil", and anecdotally or otherwise, you're saying that support for military actions is lower among Trump supporters than liberals? That's going to be a challenge to reconcile or confirm - it doesn't really square.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#996

Post by alkonaut » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

agensaequivocum wrote: post #992

alkonaut wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t take any responsibility for websites. They moderate the App Store. Anything on the App Store is there with Apple’s blessing. That includes the content inside third party apps that is only created by its users. Apple just don’t want to be associated with it.

And Parler doesn't take responsibility for user generated content. So how is that any different?

Parler takes some responsibility for the content in the app if they want to publish it on the Apple/Google App Stores - because the store policies demand that they do.

This is unrelated to legal responsibility. It’s an agreement between the owner of the App Store and the creators of Apps on it.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#997

Post by techsin101 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 10:42 PM UTC

i dont know about anyone but kinda screams censorship to me

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#998

Post by jolincost » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 4:28 AM UTC

design-material wrote: post #888

jolincost wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man

How so?

You work it out. You do your thinking yourself for yourself. That's your responsibility

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#999

Post by danans » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #878

danans wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So are we in a dangerous place now, or should Apple be allowed to exclude people by race? Race is a protected class per the law. Parler is not

Which makes zero difference in principle.

It makes a world of difference when you consider it in the context of American history.

Race and the other legally protected classes have been the biggest factors in discrimination in this country - the biggest ways in which US society has violated its creed "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal".

Political party has not, nor has "users of a computer application", nor the intersection of those manifested in Parler.

But sure, if you algebraically treat race and political party as equivalents without any historical context, the comparison is "in principle" the same, but that is deeply flawed as it requires the conscious exclusion of historical context.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#1000

Post by ben_w » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

nackerhewz wrote: post #232

throw0101a wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to draw a line somewhere: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance * 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24082241

Popper's paradox of tolerance is flawed reasoning IMO. Who decides what is tolerant and what is not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...

That’s why it’s called a paradox.