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EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

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Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#91
Could anyone point me to some cogent, well-formed arguments for why censorship of social media platforms is a good idea? i.e. books, articles, etc?

I have some thoughts but would like more perspective before fully forming an opinion.

(not arguing one way or the other below)

For example, I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums that have existed through history. And what about those characteristics would make one think that physically removing questionable speech would be effective in preventing the underlying event, crime, movement, or social change the speech was attempting to facilitate.

Comparing Twitter, say, to a literal town square — we don’t ask the air in the town square to stop transmitting the vibrations of someone who is speaking in a dangerous manner or trying to incite some action that might harm others or damage social structures. Instead we use normal human social interactions to mediate the speaker’s effect on listeners — countering their arguments, questioning their credibility or motives, telling others an opposing viewpoint, letting a person’s past speech affect their reputation, etc. We leverage our social nature and counter speech with more speech. (The prominent exception being threats of violence which are treated differently legally)

In all the years of human history before social media, there have been countless examples of insurrections, of hateful acts inspired by a few, of coups, of routine crimes, of widely believed mistruths, etc. So obviously individuals in those societies were able to communicate and organize without social media (and in many cases without any electronic communication at all). Which means that access to social media is not a necessary condition for bad events to happen or bad social phenomena to spread. And therefore these things will find a way to continue to happen even if all social media communication were terminated.

My naive assessment is that social media is different than a physical town square in: - Its anonymity / dehumanized nature - Its built-in amplification of controversial ideas (ie the algorithms of town square air does not carry further just because a statement raises eyebrows) - Its speed - … but there must be more?

Basically, why is making the “digital air” in the "digital town square" not vibrate better than utilizing (and perhaps reinforcing) the social structures that moderated public forums in the analog world?

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#92

> The decisions by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and others to suspend and/or block President Trump’s communications via their platforms is a simple exercise of their rights, under the First Amendment and Section 230, to curate their sites. EFF supporting corporate personhood and private censorship? It's time to restart the cycle with new means of communication that the new establishment cannot police.

It is a naive hope that technology alone can solve major social problems.

> It's time to restart the cycle with new means of communication ...

My response is: yes, innovation can be good, exciting, powerful. But never forget to assess how human nature will respond.

> ... with new means of communication that the new establishment cannot police.

Perhaps this will arrive, but I doubt it. Governments have many levers to influence behavior. Unless you are an anarchist, I suspect you support some role for goverment.

Even if a new communication form arises that cannot be policed -- be careful what you hope for. Free speech is not a panacea.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"use force to overthrow the election" Which politicians said that?

Rudy told the crowd “let’s have trial by combat” shortly before they marched to the capitol.

1. "Trial by combat" means one person fights one other person, and the victor is considered "right."

2. And note the context! In this case it is clear that he is speaking of a one-on-one challenge where reputation is at stake, not life or limb, and where the combat is making the evidence public. Watch the video. Don't take my word for it: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1346847382768676864

I'm no Rudy fan, and I'm not going to try to justify what Trump and other Republicans have been doing, but give me a break. If Cranley isn't inciting, then neither was Rudy.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#94
post #64

Well, I’ll never be donating again. I’m more concerned about parler being banned or that “hang pence” was trending, but banning the president - who said LEAVE IN PEACE is what we should be doing. I’m against all rioting (all year it feels like) and what happened Jan 6 was horrifying. You know how to simmer tensions? You convince the leaders of said movement to calm followers. banning / arresting / killing all the lea…

> You know how to simmer tensions? You convince the leaders of said movement to calm followers. Please explain what about Trump's history suggests that he will be convinced? I understand a respect, even some degree of zeal, for principles such as freedom of speech. But these do not exist in a vacuum. And, practically, the degree of the president's ability to speak to an audience is unparalleled. In short, there are l…

I'm am genuinely hoping for well-written counter-arguments.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#95
post #91

Could anyone point me to some cogent, well-formed arguments for why censorship of social media platforms is a good idea? i.e. books, articles, etc? I have some thoughts but would like more perspective before fully forming an opinion. (not arguing one way or the other below) For example, I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums tha…

> For example, I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums that have existed through history.

They are privately held.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#96
post #91

Could anyone point me to some cogent, well-formed arguments for why censorship of social media platforms is a good idea? i.e. books, articles, etc? I have some thoughts but would like more perspective before fully forming an opinion. (not arguing one way or the other below) For example, I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums tha…

Just to clarify: are you asking for arguments supporting...

1. government censorship of a social media platform?

2. self-censorship on social media platform?

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#97

I think EFF should look for improvements to their communication on this topic. They need to be providing much more practical leadership guidance. The ideological goals don't need compromise -- but the practical reality is that our society _needs_ an organization like EFF to be at the forefront on these topics -- advocating for better abstractions to help shape how we as a society should think and deal with these comp…

I found their response underwhelming as well.

I am tentatively willing to accept that these are simply applications of free speech and section 230, provided that the EFF prompt governments to write legal frameworks for what these platforms can and cannot do.

It is not acceptable to have companies this large, and this influential, 100% unaccountable to democracy.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#98
post #91

Could anyone point me to some cogent, well-formed arguments for why censorship of social media platforms is a good idea? i.e. books, articles, etc? I have some thoughts but would like more perspective before fully forming an opinion. (not arguing one way or the other below) For example, I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums tha…

Is anyone claiming that censorship of social media platforms is a good idea?

It is mostly people under a false/misunderstood "freedom of speech" pretense saying that Twitter/Facebook/etc should not be able to ban whomever they want.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#100
post #91

Could anyone point me to some cogent, well-formed arguments for why censorship of social media platforms is a good idea? i.e. books, articles, etc? I have some thoughts but would like more perspective before fully forming an opinion. (not arguing one way or the other below) For example, I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums tha…

> I’d like to understand the defining characteristics of social media platforms that contrasts them from traditional public forums that have existed through history.

I'll put out some ideas quickly. You can build on them. Please share back what you find.

Social media platforms, more or less:

* Tend to blur any one sense of place

* Offer geographically dispersed communication

* May deemphasize the overall humanity of participants

* Tend to accentuate particular aspects of people, such as photos or messages or resumes

* Offer asynchronous communication

* Allow for nearly zero-cost message sending and replication (i.e. retweeting)

* Unlimited person-to-person communication channels

Traditional town squares, more or less:

* Offer a tangible sense of place

* Offer a tangible connection to other people

* Are subject to public assembly laws.

* Only a limited number of people can fit.

* Public many-to-one communication is constrained by acoustics.

* So audio amplification is often needed.

* Private communications tend to be limited to short-range communication. In other words, you can't have N^2 two-person conversations.

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