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EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

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71–80 of 164 posts

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#71
post #4

I see. Hold your ground for free speech till... Ok, we were kidding we were just bluffing. Go ahead. We don't care. We support corporate censorship now full throat. It's for the best. We're looking out for your own good. I mean really, so you know it was in the government's purview to hold Snowden, Manning and Assange accountable to what's within their rights too. Nice to see you sway with the wind there EFF. Guess B…

They're saying to apply the same rules to everyone, and that the rules should be based on a human rights framework. Those seem like pretty good ideals to me.

Unfortunately this is categorically untrue. Twitter does not ban international terrorists from its ranks nor does it remove regular people who say awful things on Twitter. Go for it, do a search for violent threats on twitter. See if they have banned every account in Africa or the Middle East, or Asia, etc. Even north America.

They may ban Luis CK for misogyny let's say, but they sure as hell would not ban all the Bros who use misogynistic language. Do you think we can't find twitter handles of cartelists making terroristic threats in Mexico or other places? Is that all gone now?

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#72
post #4

I see. Hold your ground for free speech till... Ok, we were kidding we were just bluffing. Go ahead. We don't care. We support corporate censorship now full throat. It's for the best. We're looking out for your own good. I mean really, so you know it was in the government's purview to hold Snowden, Manning and Assange accountable to what's within their rights too. Nice to see you sway with the wind there EFF. Guess B…

Free speech is not just the freedom to say what you want to say. It is also the freedom not to be compelled to say what you don't want to say. That includes the right not to be compelled to let others use you to broadcast messages you disagree with. Furthermore, freedom of speech does not imply freedom from consequences.

> Free speech is not just the freedom to say what you want to say. It is also the freedom not to be compelled to say what you don't want to say.

This is a powerful idea.

Have you found legal protections in the United States for this principle? I can think of some limited examples (Miranda rights, for example), but I do not, off the top of my head, see the the U.S. Constitution as generally protecting this right broadly.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#73

question: the whole thing is a blur. i think the last tweet by the POTUS was that he wont be attending the inauguration. was the decision at twitter made by jack & co before the last tweet or after it? jack was vacationing on an island in the french polynesia while he and his executives made the decision. maybe it's a time zone thing? because the timeline doesnt make sense to me. after the temporary ban, what happene…

Unless you think Twitter was lying in https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspensio..., that last tweet was the call to violently disrupt the inauguration in POTUS’ absence that was the final straw.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#74
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You look at the context, he’s saying a person in the act of a violent insurrection should expect lethal force in response. He’s not inciting violence, he’s stating why the violence occurred. He could also be simply saying treason carries the potential for the death penalty. Either way not inciting violence. He isn’t saying go use force against all the insurrectionists, unlike some politicians who were actively saying…

"use force to overthrow the election" Which politicians said that?

Rudy told the crowd “let’s have trial by combat” shortly before they marched to the capitol.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#75
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but it's not consistent with protecting digital rights. This is not the same EFF that supported the Freedom of Speech stance by Apple against the FBI when terrorists killed 16 people in San Bernardino. Below a poster liked a response by the ACLU which is a much better response to Freedom of Speech than that by the EFF. The EFF caved. They abandoned their one and only mission to promote freedom of speech.

> This is not the same EFF that supported the Freedom of Speech stance by Apple against the FBI when terrorists killed 16 people in San Bernardino. In both cases the EFF sided with the company's ability to practice their free speech instead of the government compelling them to speak or not speak. Seems perfectly consistent.

Aha, so in your heart of hears if Tim was like, yes, FBI, here are 100 engineers, we'll let you into any phone you want!

EFF is HAPPY yes? That's what you're saying? I mean, in this hypothetical this would be what Tim/Apple wants...

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#76

Well, I’ll never be donating again. I’m more concerned about parler being banned or that “hang pence” was trending, but banning the president - who said LEAVE IN PEACE is what we should be doing. I’m against all rioting (all year it feels like) and what happened Jan 6 was horrifying. You know how to simmer tensions? You convince the leaders of said movement to calm followers. banning / arresting / killing all the lea…

> banning the president - who said LEAVE IN PEACE is what we should be doing He read that, in the usual monotone he reserves for words he doesn't believe for a second. Did you actually believe he was sincere?

That's not really up for you specifically to decide. He said it though.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#78
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the line at which you're not longer able to run a platform you built the way you want? 10 users? 100? 1 million? 1 billion? Or is it just whatever you personally feel qualifies?

Maybe when you spend billions actively recruiting and addicting users and sucking up their personal info to further your social network?

Maybe that's the thing you should be mad about then. Instead of calling this a free speech issue. Which it's not.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#79
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech is not just the freedom to say what you want to say. It is also the freedom not to be compelled to say what you don't want to say. That includes the right not to be compelled to let others use you to broadcast messages you disagree with. Furthermore, freedom of speech does not imply freedom from consequences.

Wait... so Zuckerberg is totally cool if he goes and censors anything and everything that speaks ill of him or Facebook? Cool if he censors anyone who sues FB or him? Is that your position on a medium that is built for people to post diverse opinions? What if he suffers a stroke and suddenly becomes a religious nut, cool if he only allows promotion of his religion on his medium and bans all others? Good god, we’re ef…

By leaving "totally cool" undefined, your point is ambiguous. There are legal, moral, and social aspects here. The discussion will be more productive if you will clarify.

Re: EFF's response to social media companies' decisions to block Trump’s accounts

#80
I think EFF should look for improvements to their communication on this topic. They need to be providing much more practical leadership guidance.

The ideological goals don't need compromise -- but the practical reality is that our society _needs_ an organization like EFF to be at the forefront on these topics -- advocating for better abstractions to help shape how we as a society should think and deal with these complex issues. EFF shouldn't be effectively silencing itself by becoming a voice that just repeats platitudes. This article to me felt like the right wing response to gun violence events "we send our thoughts and prayers but let's not politicize this tragedy".

In particular -- there are simple ways to avoid worry over the "slippery slope" associated with defining policies that apply different rules to different users -- you can espouse policy frameworks that are explicitly parameterized by impact (impact is a bit fuzzy to capture in truth but conceptually clear -- and simple proxies suffice to communicate the concept -- in most cases the number of followers is a reasonably close conceptual proxy for a social network).

If you have 70 million followers and you say "let's punish immigrants" it's just simply a different thing than if you say the same thing and you have 10 followers -- pretending there "must not exist" a different framework for responding to events that occur on such vastly different scales is not practical and it's actually a failure to provide good advice here on an ideological level -- because we _know_ that these events are different and project meaningfully different risk profiles onto the world.

There is not a clear ideological reason to falsely pretend that "the same thing" is happening when two users with such vastly different impact publish the exact same sequence of words ... The threat model for "danger of communication" is based on impact and so should be the policy frameworks aimed at managing these risks.

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