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Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

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Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#171

Post by _y5hn »

jturpin wrote: post #136
ansible wrote: post #43

I'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a na…

I have absolutely no idea what can be done. I think the best thing that could most realistically happen is that things "cool off" in the months after Biden is inaugurated and the world continues to spin.

Hell will freeze over first. Trump will not show at inauguration, he has not acknowledged Biden as the next President or that fraud was insignificant in the election.

Anyways, whatever he says, he's got zero credibility, follows the most pathological path of psychopathy, though is expert in massively duping people for his own crimes and frauds. Though, he's so bad and incompetent in everything else, he relies on enablers around him that he later can backstab for his own mistakes.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-99178053752

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#172

Post by vladTheInhaler »

geofft wrote: post #81
ansible wrote: post #43

I'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a na…

I think the idea that the "sides" are roughly equally balanced is a false narrative pushed by the smaller side. Obviously "hang Mike Pence" isn't an appealing idea to anywhere near 100% of Republican voters, and I would wager it's appealing to just about 0% of non-Republican voters. What you're seeing is that the amount of yelling is roughly equally balanced, but you can't extrapolate from that to what all people act…

I agree with your overall point that we need to revitalize our voting system. The Center for Election Science has made a convincing argument for approval voting as a method to de-polarize elections [1].

[1] https://electionscience.org/library/the-center-squeeze-effec...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#173

Post by gkoberger »

Darmody wrote: post #168
gkoberger wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the government doesn't have any say in Twitter trends, so it's hard to argue this is what an "authoritarian state" does. It's a private company that would prefer its product isn't used in the murder of a politician. I don't have an answer, and I don't think there is one. I do, however, wish there was more scrutiny of the people spreading the message (aka the president of the united states) than companies trying…

I don't think it's hard to argue that. When countries like China censor, what they do is make companies delete anything they don't like. Now it is the company directly who decides to censor which in my opinion is worse. Why worse? Because you don't get to elect those who run the company. In a democracy you have the chance to change the government but that can't be done with a private company. Now, when you have a few…

So you'd rather the current government make this decision? You know, the government run by a president who directly incited all this "hang mike pence" stuff, right from Twitter itself?

While the rioting was happening, the president tweeted "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!" And his lawyer tweeted "[Pence] will face execution by firing squad. He is a coward & will sing like a bird & confess ALL."

I'm not sure if those are the people we want making these decisions.

Like I said, I don't like any of this. I want to live in a world where we don't have to decide between the government and large companies, neither of which I particularly like. But alas, here we are... and currently, Twitter is the one on the side of "not lynching the VP", so I guess I'm on their side.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#174

Post by throwaway201103 »

feralimal wrote: post #150
netsharc wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are literally there to ensure you get it wrong! They really are. They are part of the governance structure - they will not tell you the way out of this situation, or give you good information. > Verify everything you accept as true Hah... so, did you verify this stuff about MSM being a force to mislead? The problem with the Internet nowadays is, it's already like a Library of Babel [0], if you want to have you…

> Hah... so, did you verify this stuff about MSM being a force to mislead? Its obvious. If you look at what is presented, you are given lots of claims, but very few facts. Its just a load of evidence-free noise. What's to evaluate?! Seriously, look a little deeper at almost any article. There is no actual information there. The question you should ask - critically - is how do I know this to be true? And if you don't…

I've been reading a bit of Noam Chomsky this afternoon, not a person I'd agree with politically but many of his observations ring true regardless.

"The key element of social control is the strategy of distraction that is to divert public attention from important issues and changes decided by political and economic elites, through the technique of flood or flooding continuous distractions and insignificant information."

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#175

Post by neogodless »

feralimal wrote: post #166
neogodless wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need to slow down and examine our premises more carefully. 1. Gatekeepers (in this case, any media labeled "mainstream" and any popular social media corporation) exist to spread disinformation. 2. These gatekeepers are part of the government (or governance structure); they operate on the direction of the government. 3. They will not give you "good information." Any of them. All of this to argue that Preside…

To me, it was always the case. I think TV was set up to be the most powerful propaganda delivery mechanism. That's pretty clear, when you look at how the BBC was created. But - for more info, so that you can confirm this is explicitly the case, you should look up 'Operation Mockingbird'. Or the way that the CIA sponsored arts and culture. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-... The media being…

> the CIA's secret campaign to turn American art into anti-Soviet cultural propaganda

This is perfectly credible. But extrapolating that example of government influence over culture to the premise "media is 100% under the control and direction of the government" or, furthermore, a hidden or shadow government... is stretching well beyond a logical conclusion. (It would have to be a shadow government, because mainstream media and social media were not going along with the Republicans led by Trump, when they were in power over several branches of the U.S. government.)

You need a lot more evidence to dispel the notion that this is "not a conspiracy."

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#176

Post by throwaway201103 »

_y5hn wrote: post #154
throwaway201103 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> made clear rulings based on the evidence. At least some, maybe most of those challenges were dismissed on procedural grounds, lack of standing, etc. They never got to the point of examining the "evidence." Maybe the retort to that is the challengers should have foreseen that. But the people filing these challenges were not unhinged randos from Twitter. They were elected officials, lawyers, educated people. They are…

The lawyers refused to lie in court, because their "evidence" was just the lies and empty allegations, which would be a crime to present in court. So they were summarily dismissed, by Trump appointed judges no less.

Then why did they file the cases? Did they not realize that they would need to present evidence under oath?

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#177

Post by ModernMech »

jvreagan wrote: post #135
netcraft wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the two sides exactly? There is a group that has produced no evidence for their claims and is threatening and acting out violence - is that one of the sides? There is a point in which a particular group is no longer acting in good faith, and is taking advantage of the tolerance and ability to have discourse. https://kottke.org/17/08/the-paradox-of-tolerance

You just described both sides. Side a: 2016 US election was stolen. 2020 was fair and square. Side b: 2020 US election was stolen. 2016 election was fair and square. Seems that there are a small number of people who think a) both elections were stolen or b) both elections were fair and square. They are being drowned out by sides a and b. If you fit side a or b above, you might want to some logical thinking. Pretty si…

You have to pay more attention to what both sides were arguing.

In 2016, side A was arguing that the inputs to the election (voter opinions) were manipulated by foreign agents. This claim was 100% proven true by the Mueller report. Whether this actually changed the results of the election is impossible to say (I am of the opinion it was Comey's announcement 11 days before the election which tipped a close election toward Trump). But an effort was made, and that effort was for the benefit of the Trump campaign, and was explicitly supported by the Trump campaign. See: Mueller report Vol I, or Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election (5 volumes).

In 2020, side B was (and still is) arguing that the output of the election (the actual vote total) was changed. This has been shown to be false by repeated recounts, audits, investigations, court cases, etc.

If you think these two scenarios are identical, look a little closer.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#178

Post by geofft »

vladTheInhaler wrote: post #172
geofft wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea that the "sides" are roughly equally balanced is a false narrative pushed by the smaller side. Obviously "hang Mike Pence" isn't an appealing idea to anywhere near 100% of Republican voters, and I would wager it's appealing to just about 0% of non-Republican voters. What you're seeing is that the amount of yelling is roughly equally balanced, but you can't extrapolate from that to what all people act…

I agree with your overall point that we need to revitalize our voting system. The Center for Election Science has made a convincing argument for approval voting as a method to de-polarize elections [1]. [1] https://electionscience.org/library/the-center-squeeze-effec...

Yup. Another thing about our current system that I only realized after talking with folks who do politics for a living about what they do: the fact that elections are close to 50/50 isn't a sign of a deep and fundamental divide in our country, it's that it's financially not worth getting much past 50/50. If you are currently at 48%, it's worth changing your platform a bit to get 51% of the population; if you're at 51%, it's not worth changing your platform to get 55%.

More directly, if you're polling well in 40% of districts, poorly in 40% of districts, and competitively in the rest, it's worth focusing your attention only on the competitive districts, until you get to 50%. It's not worth paying any attention to the ones you're not competitive in.

Other voting methods (approval or ranked-choice) will reduce this effect and make political parties more representative of what people actually believe, instead of designing the system such that we have two parties that do the worst possible job of each representing 50% of the people.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#179

Post by neogodless »

ansible wrote: post #43

I'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a na…

We do not have "two sides." Many on the two dominate groups believe there is only "the other side" but there are people that believe facts, science, etc. are more important than either side. It would be naive to believe even those that value truth highest are without bias, but it would not be naive to conclude that we are better off trying to combat polarization, and avoid simplifying our labels into "us vs. them", "right vs. wrong", "fact vs. fiction" because these labels are too simple, too broad, and ultimately inaccurate.

I do believe that the arguing, the battle... it's a distraction, in a sense. It's an amplifier. It's a self-reinforcing polarization engine.

Maybe I'm just saying what you said, but I think it's important to break down the concept of "two sides" if you want to have any hope of finding common ground.

How many of you (in the U.S. if not abroad) want the best for the United States? Who among us want it to be a strong nation full of employed, educated, healthy citizens? Who wants to revisit the tenants of our founding fathers, learn lessons from the past while being willing to try new things and accept changes? Who wants this stark divide to be behind us?

Who wants to deescalate from violent rhetoric and focus on proven methods of finding and sharing truth?

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#180

Post by throwaway201103 »

_y5hn wrote: post #171
jturpin wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have absolutely no idea what can be done. I think the best thing that could most realistically happen is that things "cool off" in the months after Biden is inaugurated and the world continues to spin.

Hell will freeze over first. Trump will not show at inauguration, he has not acknowledged Biden as the next President or that fraud was insignificant in the election. Anyways, whatever he says, he's got zero credibility, follows the most pathological path of psychopathy, though is expert in massively duping people for his own crimes and frauds. Though, he's so bad and incompetent in everything else, he relies on enab…

He has said he will not attend the inauguration. He has said there will be an orderly transition of power, so that implies he acknowledges Biden as the president-elect, or at least realizes that he's out of challenges. True that he has not disavowed the fraud claims, and probably never will.
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