Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#161

Post by pembrook » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #104

pembrook wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is, don’t trade the headlines. But it’s important to know your experience in the US will vary dramatically based on economic status. If you’re high income/above-average educated (which you pretty much have to be to immigrate to the US due to the overly strict/broken immigration system), there’s no better place to be. You will be able to reach the absolute peak of your potential here. 10/10, would immigra…

I disagree. I live in Pittsburgh, and we recently had the Tree of Life Synagogue shooting. There were also people being threatened along the route of a Black Lives Matter protest, who just happened to be there and did not join in enthusiastically enough, in the eyes of the marching protesters. No one was injured, but from the videos it seemed very close to getting out of hand. (Marchers coming off the street to verba…

It seems you spend a lot of time watching sensational news media and not a lot of time looking at actual data (don’t feel bad, it’s a trap I’ve fallen into before).

Look at any chart of violence in the US, it’s a steady downward slope over the past 30 years. There’s never been a safer time to be alive: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-...

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#162

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #67

amluto wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to steer people to the media outlets that are still mostly balanced? NPR comes to mind. Or encourage people to read a leftish and a rightish source? And encourage people to think for themselves? It would also be nice, albeit maybe very hard, to encourage even the less balanced media to try to speak to everyone and to write critically and honestly. For example, I personally lean left, but I find the New York Times…

NPR does a good job of presenting the basic facts in their news segments, but their commentary, editorial, and human interest programming is 100% progressive.

Surely better than Regressive, no?

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-99178053752

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#163

Post by nradov » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #85

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

You are right. No one person can know everything about everything. Heaven's know I defer to experts if I know I can trust their opinion. The issue is trust. And US has about only one institution left that people seem to trust. Military. It does not bode well for the fate of the republic.

People trust the military precisely because in the last several decades it has been studiously apolitical. This is a fragile state of affairs, and unusual by historical and international standards.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#164

Post by krapp » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #159

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

The trouble is that our gatekeepers inevitably go beyond being neutral arbiters of truth and allow their personal biases to color their analysis. And they might even believe that they're doing the right thing by guiding society in the "correct" direction. But audience members with opposing views pick up on those inconsistencies and then disbelieve everything the gatekeepers say, even the unbiased truthful stuff.

>But audience members with opposing views pick up on those inconsistencies and then disbelieve everything the gatekeepers say, even the unbiased truthful stuff.

That's not the fault of the "gatekeepers," nor should it be their problem. Disbelieving everything a source claims because you find "inconsistencies" and "bias" when no human being is ever perfectly consistent or unbiased in their views is an irrational and infantile way of thinking.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#165

Post by ansible » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:13 PM UTC

Renaud wrote: post #103

ansible wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I do have a very strong opinion on all that. I just wanted to note that the "other side" that I'm not on, also believes basically the same thing with regards to my side.

Having an opinion you strongly believe in is not enough to make it true or right. The republicans have espoused a dangerous ideology that not just allows but welcomes factual untruths and a worrying disconnect from rational thought. There is a need for political parties of various philosophical bents to push and pull in different directions based on reasoned and informed decisions. Once you give up that core groundin…

> Having an opinion you strongly believe in is not enough to make it true or right.

Of course it isn't enough. That's why the media outlets in question will make up facts, or really slant things to appear to carry sufficient factual weight, and then the reasoning from there comes out to the desired conclusion. Not that there is usually much reasoning going on, it is mostly emotional arguments.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#166

Post by feralimal » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

neogodless wrote: post #155

feralimal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Very honest! > As much as it goes against my grain, I have to admit that society works better when the gatekeepers decide what the truth is, even though we know they don’t always get it right. No! They don't always get it right?! They are literally there to ensure you get it wron…

We really need to slow down and examine our premises more carefully. 1. Gatekeepers (in this case, any media labeled "mainstream" and any popular social media corporation) exist to spread disinformation. 2. These gatekeepers are part of the government (or governance structure); they operate on the direction of the government. 3. They will not give you "good information." Any of them. All of this to argue that Preside…

To me, it was always the case. I think TV was set up to be the most powerful propaganda delivery mechanism. That's pretty clear, when you look at how the BBC was created.

But - for more info, so that you can confirm this is explicitly the case, you should look up 'Operation Mockingbird'. Or the way that the CIA sponsored arts and culture.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-...

The media being part of governance is not a conspiracy.

UPDATE/EDIT

And, in other conspiracy news, I am unable to reply to comments below. "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." This will probably prevent me from replying for a few hours (last time it was 3 hours). Understandably, people will think I'm flaky and unable to defend my position, where I am happy to have a meaningful interaction and share a different point of view.

Ask yourself, should I be able to say what I have said, in a free society? Did you think HN wasn't part of the problem?

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#167

Post by geofft » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

1MachineElf wrote: post #137

geofft wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea that the "sides" are roughly equally balanced is a false narrative pushed by the smaller side. Obviously "hang Mike Pence" isn't an appealing idea to anywhere near 100% of Republican voters, and I would wager it's appealing to just about 0% of non-Republican voters. What you're seeing is that the amount of yelling is roughly equally balanced, but you can't extrapolate from that to what all people act…

It's odd to me how someone could think that there is more hatred for Mike Pence coming from within his own party vs. outside of it. I don't know what social media circles you've participated in for the past 5 years, but it seems clearly the opposite case to me. There is an overwhelmingly large group of people online who equivocate Mike Pence with Nazism, and they regularly call for punching and killing of anyone who…

I'm not arguing that there is more "hatred" for Pence coming from within his party than outside it, in a general sense. I'm arguing specifically that "hang Mike Pence" is coming from the far right, and only from the far part of the far right.

If you find this odd, you should read some far-right forums. I read these social media circles (as well as far-left ones of various sorts), not because I agree with them, but because I think it's useful to understand what the "other side" thinks. The one I was reading today had multiple memes of him as a traitor - one had him photoshopped as Brutus assassinating Trump-as-Caesar surrounded by Romney and others, one had him next to Benedict Arnold, etc.

Meanwhile, at some point in the NYC Women's March four years ago, when folks were chanting "Hey hey, ho ho, Donald Trump has got to go," I tried to lead a "Michael Pence has got to go." Nobody really joined in.

And in any case, my original point is that there is a large number of folks, Democrat and Republican and everything in between, who do not agree with "hang Mike Pence," and it is on those people's beliefs that we can build common ground. I don't deny that there are protestors with megaphones who shout extreme positions, but my exact point was that you should not extrapolate based on who shouts the loudest.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#168

Post by Darmody » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #157

Darmody wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what do you suggest? To we censor the news altogether? They report facts and usually they do it on a very editorialized way. Hiding information from the population is what authoritarian states do.

Well, the government doesn't have any say in Twitter trends, so it's hard to argue this is what an "authoritarian state" does. It's a private company that would prefer its product isn't used in the murder of a politician. I don't have an answer, and I don't think there is one. I do, however, wish there was more scrutiny of the people spreading the message (aka the president of the united states) than companies trying…

I don't think it's hard to argue that. When countries like China censor, what they do is make companies delete anything they don't like. Now it is the company directly who decides to censor which in my opinion is worse.

Why worse? Because you don't get to elect those who run the company. In a democracy you have the chance to change the government but that can't be done with a private company. Now, when you have a few companies that control most of the communication channels and they can censor indiscriminately anyone who they don't like, you're absolutely doomed.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#169

Post by ModernMech » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

InvaderFizz wrote: post #89

blakesterz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. You're partially right. We have at least two sides. One side is CLEARLY delusional. Fueled by conspiracy theories and lies. We also have other sides, but the two sides that get the most attention are the only sides that matter. We have one side that is most definitely delusional, other…

> One side is CLEARLY delusional. Fueled by conspiracy theories and lies. Which set of conspiracy theories? The crazy ones that Trump was a Russian asset and everything surrounding that nutbaggery for four years? How about the current nutbaggery from the other extreme that this election was stollen through voting machine manipulation, ballot stuffing, discarded Trump ballots by postal workers, etc. It's hard for me t…

We'll call it nutbaggery as soon as you explain why Trump's campaign manager was caught funneling internal campaign data to a Russian intel officer during the 2016 election [1], while they were busy hacking Trump's opponent's party, and sending spies to meet with Trump's son and son in law at Trump's house (meeting which they welcomed enthusiastically, they lied about, and did not report to the FBI) [2].

[1]: Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election, Volume V.

[2]: Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election, Volume I.

> The Senate Intelligence Committee assessed that Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort's "high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services" was a "grave counterintelligence threat".[15] The foremost individual was Manafort's employee Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian.[15] The committee identified Kilimnik as a "Russian intelligence officer"; describing that Manafort and Kilimnik had a "close and lasting relationship" even through the 2016 election.[18] Manafort repeatedly tried to "secretly share internal Campaign information with Kilimnik", including "sensitive internal polling data or Campaign strategy".[18]

> The Senate Intelligence Committee introduced a new allegation regarding Kilimnik, that he "may have been connected" to the Russian military intelligence's hack and leak of Democratic Party material. However, the report's discussions on this topic are redacted.[19] Manafort's connection with the Russian hack and leak operation is "largely unknown", but possible, given "two pieces of information" the committee found; the details of such information were also redacted.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_...

BTW, this report was released by Senate Republicans. As soon as this matter is cleared up, you can call it nutbaggery.

Re: Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic

#170

Post by maram » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #76

Like probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an ex…

> I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true.

The least thing Twitter could do is allow us to see who started a specific hashtag. Hashtags can be pushed using Tweetdeck through private accounts.

In 2016, @jack asked which feature we want to see https://twitter.com/jack/status/814537990366228480

I replied with "ability to see who started a specific hashtag" https://twitter.com/maram5e/status/814720800024621060

@jack thought it was interesting and mentioned VP of Product at twitter. https://twitter.com/jack/status/814721829273292804 I got excited, but nothing happened.

I got excited because I thought I would in no time be able to, not discern the truth, but identify whether I can trust the source. After all, there is a name for content which does not identify its source: Grey propaganda.