ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#41

Post by miles » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #35

miles wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're OK with bad speech being out there Might be time for a bit more nuanced view: Facebook admits it was used to 'incite offline violence' in Myanmar https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 Four dead in Bangladesh riot over offensive Facebook post https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/21/asia/riot-deaths-facebook-pos... A Genocide Incited on Facebook, With Posts From Myanmar’s Military https://www.nytimes.com/2018/1…

No. The ACLU was built on rejecting social harm arguments to free speech.

> The ACLU was built on rejecting social harm arguments to free speech.

So they're OK with yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater? Or having a president incite a riot or a war?

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#42

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

courtf wrote: post #30

nostromo wrote: post #20

“Start your own Twitter then!” ... they do. “Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter. Apple gives them 24 hour notice to moderate more speech or be banned.”

That's funny, it seems they were perfectly happy to try starting their own country a couple days ago.

[deleted]

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#43

Post by ericmcer » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

zadokshi wrote: post #4

I don’t care what side your politics are. When corporations can so easily control the voice of the elected leader of a country (one who has genuine legitimate support or about half of the country), I become very scared for the future. Corporations should not have more power than the elected officials.

That is where I am at as well. People are celebrating this because the guy they banned is on the other team, but it is crazy how twitter/fb can cut the legs out from under the "leader of the free world" when needed (it was kinda justified in this case).

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#44

Post by nostromo » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

courtf wrote: post #30

nostromo wrote: post #20

“Start your own Twitter then!” ... they do. “Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter. Apple gives them 24 hour notice to moderate more speech or be banned.”

That's funny, it seems they were perfectly happy to try starting their own country a couple days ago.

Autonomous zones for me but not for thee.

Listen, I’m center left and oppose all this craziness. But the tech giants banning these accounts is counterproductive. Violence will increase not decrease as extremists are pushed out of the public square and into echo chambers and non-public Signal groups.

“A riot is the language of the unheard” remember?

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#45

Post by Grimm1 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

Acrobatic_Road wrote: post #33

karaterobot wrote: post #26

Maybe it would help if someone on the internet condescendingly pointed out to them that the first amendment doesn't apply to private platforms. I mean I know that's not what they're talking about at all, but it's what always seems to happen in these discussions.

At what point do these massive corporations effectively become a government? They govern what you can say, think and buy.

I don't want businesses to be forced to do business with people it doesn't want to there are many avenues to address grievances with that already. For instance in this case, the Trump admin can sue and have the concern addressed in court.

No business in the world can currently stand up to a government that wants to curtail it by the way.

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#46

Post by helsinkiandrew » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

> It is our hope that these companies will apply their rules transparently to everyone.

The trouble is rules need to be interpreted. Not inciting violence means calling for a valid protest might not be legal, or raising issues about a truly rigged election is not allowed.

There’s too many people talking hot air on social media for rules to to be argued over by lawyers and review boards against every grievance.

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#47

Post by Pils » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #20

“Start your own Twitter then!” ... they do. “Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter. Apple gives them 24 hour notice to moderate more speech or be banned.”

> Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter

Shows up for me: https://www.google.com/search?q=parler

If they didn't want to get banned from the app stores, they should've at least tried to follow the TOS. There is a subreddit dedicated to cataloguing all the death threats on the app, many of which are still up today: https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/top/?t=month.

Reddit, Facebook and Twitter have entire content moderation teams for this sorta thing. Why should there be a double standard for conservative social media sites?

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#48

Post by manfredo » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

miles wrote: post #28

yuliyp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're misunderstanding the ACLU's arguments here. They're fairly consistently pro free-speech, mostly regardless of what that means. There's not much handwringing from them about "bad" speech because they're OK with bad speech being out there. I don't think they're fans of Trump, as their statement makes clear, but they're worried about the precedent that banning him sets.

> they're OK with bad speech being out there Might be time for a bit more nuanced view: Facebook admits it was used to 'incite offline violence' in Myanmar https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 Four dead in Bangladesh riot over offensive Facebook post https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/21/asia/riot-deaths-facebook-pos... A Genocide Incited on Facebook, With Posts From Myanmar’s Military https://www.nytimes.com/2018/1…

I think it's simplistic to point to Facebook as instrumental in these instances of unrest. Sure, they were used as an instrument of communication but had Facebook not been there people would just use SMS or IRC. The 2002 Gujarat unrest, for instance, predates Facebook. We know what deadly unrest still forms in the absence of Facebook and other social media. I don't think we have evidence to claim that social media exacerbates unrest, versus the simple fact that more people are on social media and it's becoming a more popular communication tool than SMS.

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#49

Post by mech422 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

zadokshi wrote: post #4

I don’t care what side your politics are. When corporations can so easily control the voice of the elected leader of a country (one who has genuine legitimate support or about half of the country), I become very scared for the future. Corporations should not have more power than the elected officials.

Then change the laws...Corporations are not public utilities. They are not obligated to provide service to anyone.

Indeed, they have to police their platforms to avoid wrongful death suits, and keep advertisers happy.

edit: And to be honest, this is no different then all the "Google shutdown my business for no reason" posts we see on HN. The conventional wisdom there, is "don't build your business on third party infrastructure/services. I'd think the same logic holds for politicians. Hell - they have they're own TV network (c-span) - why don't they use it more ?

Re: ACLU Counsel Warns of 'Unchecked Power' of Twitter, Facebook

#50

Post by MisterBastahrd » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

ergocoder wrote: post #13

zadokshi wrote: post #4

I don’t care what side your politics are. When corporations can so easily control the voice of the elected leader of a country (one who has genuine legitimate support or about half of the country), I become very scared for the future. Corporations should not have more power than the elected officials.

Not sure why you are downvoted. You raised a legit point. Facebook and Twitter are important communication channels for the public. It's dangerous that they can ban any elected official without going through any single legal process. No judge. No jury. What we are doing here is a screaming match. Who can scream at Facebook/Twitter the loudest probably wins. This is going to turn into threats on FB/Twitter execs very…

Because if they used due process a lot of them would have been banned a long time ago.

They let Trump get away with a CONSTANT stream of bullshit and insults over the last four years. Their PR people had to constantly engage the media to tell them that he only kept his account because he was POTUS.

He isn't gonna be POTUS much longer, there are about 40 other platforms he can use, and he's got an entire press apparatus.

I'm tired of this revisionist nonsense. Again: Trump and others would have been banned A LONG TIME AGO if they weren't elected officials who spent money on these platforms according to their TOSes.