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NFL player IQ by position

benfry.com

41–50 of 100 posts

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

(I noticed all of the comments you contributed to this community are effectively unsubstantiated racism. I suspect I am wasting my time replying, so I will keep this brief.) "foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated...'[black people are faster and dumber and white people are slower and smarter]'" You are missing the point entirely. While there is an inverse correlation between footspeed and intelligence i…

[deleted]

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an explanation for why foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated: "Upper body strength is relatively equally distributed between the races, but footspeed most definitely is not. So, tailbacks, wide receivers, and defensive players have a need for speed, so they are disproportionately black. I haven't checked recently, but in most recent years since Jason Sehorn's retirement, none of the 64 NFL start…

(I noticed all of the comments you contributed to this community are effectively unsubstantiated racism. I suspect I am wasting my time replying, so I will keep this brief.) "foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated...'[black people are faster and dumber and white people are slower and smarter]'" You are missing the point entirely. While there is an inverse correlation between footspeed and intelligence i…

The existence of a racial gap in IQ is simply not in dispute. It shows up in SAT scores, it shows up in military IQ tests during times with a draft, and it shows up in numerous psychological studies. See for instance this paper from Brookings Institute, which is about as mainstream liberal as you can get ( http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pd... )

The only question is if the difference or environmental or genetic. I'm not positive what causes the difference myself. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to make a bet, I'd probably say a substantial portion of the gap is genetic in origin. For evidence of this, I'll point you to this article in Slate (a very mainstream news source): http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/entry/2178123/

no data suggests there are fundamental genetic differences between the races that result in the expression of differences in intelligence or footspeed or any other significantly complex trait.

Percent of body fat, physique, testosterone levels, and brain size have all shown to be correlated with race.

Men of West African decent have broken 10 second barrier on the 100m dash 134 times. No member from any other ethnic group has ever broken 10 seconds. Meanwhile, East Africans routinely monopolize gold medals in the long distance events ( 10,000 meters, marathons). Can you think of any non-genetic explanation for this? Examining the physiques of West Africans versus East Africans makes the genetic explanation pretty obvious.

Studies of IQ highly correlate with latitude. People of northern Chinese and Mongolian origin score higher than the Vietnamese. In limited studies, Intuits score higher than Native Americans from Central America. 60,000 years is actually quite a long time, and the skills necessary to survive harsh northern winters are very different than those needed to survive in tropical jungles.

I will gamble there is a significant inverse correlation between education and racism.

I'd agree with you there. But note that education is an industry. And just like Coke tries to convince you that drinking coke will make you cool, the education industry tries to convince you that there is no problem that cannot be remedied just by spending more on education. In academia, freedom of thought about the issue of IQ is simply not allowed (see Larry Summers and James Watson).

For the record, I am Ivy league educated myself. I would love it if the IQ gap was environmental, and we could figure out the formula for making it disappear. I spent a fair amount of time working for charities in the inner city. But I believe that we must try to get an accurate view of reality, even if the truth might be unpleasant. Willfully denying evidence helps nobody.

FYI, I specially created this account to post on this thread, because I was scared of being called a racist and didn't want that tarnishing my normal account.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#43

I can't say I agree with his conclusion. Lineman are there mainly to be big and collide with other lineman, whereas receivers have a much more skill-intensive job. They have to try to run in pattern while still breaking free of defenseman, but doing so in such a way that the quarterback still knows where to throw the ball. They have to then catch the ball (requiring them to predict its flight path and adjust their pa…

It is obvious that you have never played football. Go read "The Blind Side" and then get back to us.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#44

I can't say I agree with his conclusion. Lineman are there mainly to be big and collide with other lineman, whereas receivers have a much more skill-intensive job. They have to try to run in pattern while still breaking free of defenseman, but doing so in such a way that the quarterback still knows where to throw the ball. They have to then catch the ball (requiring them to predict its flight path and adjust their pa…

I would think 10 extra IQ points would benefit a receiver

Well, these two wide outs are certainly using the old noodle: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/2691471704_abbceab973_b....

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I noticed all of the comments you contributed to this community are effectively unsubstantiated racism. I suspect I am wasting my time replying, so I will keep this brief.) "foot speed and intelligence are inversely correlated...'[black people are faster and dumber and white people are slower and smarter]'" You are missing the point entirely. While there is an inverse correlation between footspeed and intelligence i…

The existence of a racial gap in IQ is simply not in dispute. It shows up in SAT scores, it shows up in military IQ tests during times with a draft, and it shows up in numerous psychological studies. See for instance this paper from Brookings Institute, which is about as mainstream liberal as you can get ( http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pd... ) The only question is if the difference or envi…

I have no problem with facts. If there is currently an IQ gap between races, then that's a fact. We can study the reasons, that's fine too.

But it's the potential for assigning social roles to certain groups because of some "natural" disposition that I find troubling.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#46
post #40
post #17

Hi, Occam here. This is just a map of the white/black ratio of each position. There is a 15 point difference between the mean IQ of European-descended (white) Americans and African-descended (black) Americans Please note this is something You Can't Say so don't speak publicly of it. The most interesting thing to note here is that white players score about half a standard deviation higher than the national white IQ, a…

Interesting that you simply term this a "white/black" ratio of each position. Why didn't you call it an "advantaged/disadvantaged" ratio? Why not a "beneficiary/victim" ratio? If you are trying to chalk up these differences to some kind of genetic disparity, that in fact Has Been Said, repeatedly, for hundreds if not thousands of years, continues to be loudly parroted by certain segments, and has been repeatedly show…

I agree. In current American society, it's impossible to make claims on the race variable in a vacuum without referring to other social factors.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#47
post #40
post #17

Hi, Occam here. This is just a map of the white/black ratio of each position. There is a 15 point difference between the mean IQ of European-descended (white) Americans and African-descended (black) Americans Please note this is something You Can't Say so don't speak publicly of it. The most interesting thing to note here is that white players score about half a standard deviation higher than the national white IQ, a…

Interesting that you simply term this a "white/black" ratio of each position. Why didn't you call it an "advantaged/disadvantaged" ratio? Why not a "beneficiary/victim" ratio? If you are trying to chalk up these differences to some kind of genetic disparity, that in fact Has Been Said, repeatedly, for hundreds if not thousands of years, continues to be loudly parroted by certain segments, and has been repeatedly show…

I'd suggest reading this article: http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/entry/2178123/

"white kids from households with annual incomes of $20,000 to $30,000 easily outscore black kids from households with annual incomes of $80,000 to $100,000."

In an adoption study where black and white babies were both adopted by high IQ white parents, there was a one standard deviation difference ( 15 IQ points) between the black and white children.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#49
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know enough people in sports to be sure about this, but my guess is that the people who try to fix their mistakes rather than crow about their successes are the ones who improve over time.

I wouldn't be so sure. In sports, performance is dictated by reflex. Mistakes are eliminated by constant practice, not by ruminating over past errors. So I would expect that the players who are most optimistic would have the best performance, because they derive pleasure from their successes, quickly forget their failures, and are thus most likely to practice.

Mistakes are not eliminated by constant practice unless you practice not making mistakes. If you just keep repeating yourself, you'll just learn to optimize around your mistakes and never reach peak performance.

This happens to musicians a lot.

Re: NFL player IQ by position

#50
post #4

Interesting. Yet in this study the Wonderlic is keyed to position, not performance in that position. We know that people largely stay within their positions, and we know that metrics like the Wonderlic and the drafting Combine strongly influence both draft decisions, and fielding decisions. We know that such metrics are designed to correspond with existing ideas: in this case, that quarterbacks were smart and tailbac…

> It is plausible that this correlation represents bias in the decisions of the coaches, not real ability.

Gladwell's point is that there is a matching problem, i.e., that quarterbacks with high Wonderlic scores are drafted ahead of those with low Wonderlic scores. In fact, one of the players on his high scores list (Tony Romo) went undrafted, while some of those on his low scores listed (McNabb, Vince Young, and Marino) were drafted in the first round.

His examples don't support his matching problem thesis. Further, people that follow the NFL know that Wonderlics aren't a huge factor in selecting players.

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