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Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

hongkongwatch.org

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Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#71

Post by sbdisns »

eloisius wrote: post #30
orange_tee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is strong and the UK is weak. The treaty is not valid anymore. Only an idiot would say otherwise.

The terms of the treaty state anything about the relative strength of each nation?

But that’s how treaties work. We’re just upset we’re not the ones breaking treaties anymore. Ironically, the treaty was signed because the British pretended they were in a Position to unilaterally re-negotiate a previous treaty obligating them to return HL.

The Chinese had no obligation to sign the 1980s treaty to get HK back, and were hardly intimidated by the UK’s 1980s military might to do so (I mean an British admiral said about the Falkland war: “if not for a few defective fuses we would have lost”. Against Argentina. Pretty pathetic)

The UK was delusionaly saying it might not give HK back to commies (understandable sentiment, surely) and the commies signed something to let the Brits save face.

About HK:

There’s nothing we can do.

Deluding ourselves that there is weakens us

We must contain the CCP, but HK is not it.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#72

Post by thepasswordis »

justinzollars wrote: post #69
thepasswordis wrote: post #56

How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. HKers say they want democracy and fair elections. CCP and most Chinese think that's bullshit. MAGAs say they want democracy and fair elections. Most of the US Gov as well as mos…

> How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government You need to read more about China. What you believe is simply not true. China is internally focused, The west is externally focused.

China thinks that HK affairs are "internal affairs".

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#73

Post by seizethecheese »

publicola1990 wrote: post #60
arcticbull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how international obligations work. Most borders were defined at gunpoint but we generally don’t allow for arbitrary redefinition when the loser gets uppity, Crimea aside.

For a long time American policy was also that these "unfair" treaties made by Colonial Powers should go. Roosevelt was very much of that opinion that these treaties should be abbrograted in the aftermath of World War II, and his views did lead to some differences of opinion with Churchill. Infact all other concessions except HK and Macau were returned to Chinese about the end of the war.

We probably need to return California to Mexico by your logic.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#74

Post by AnHonestComment »

mantap wrote: post #13

The west needs to sanction China. This is violation of China's treaty obligations, it's not just a domestic issue, it's an international law issue, and it should have international consequences.

The reason this is happening now is recent US events have shown Chinas subversion of the Democratic Party and 2020 election were successful, and they can safely act now that Trump is sidelined.

This is probing ahead of attacking Taiwan.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#75

Post by baybal2 »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #43

The situation in HK is depressing, especially when Western corporations and politicians seem to admire the CCP more than democratic activists. What can an individual do to help Hong Kongers? Any suggestions?

> What can an individual do to help Hong Kongers? Any suggestions?

How many firearms, and ammo you can buy, and how many politicians you can lobby? Even if you are a single digit millionaire, that's just enough to arm, and feed no more than a single lightly armed battalion for a few months.

I see other option than a military solution, either limited, or not.

Even if any Western power decide on half hearted piecemeal solution like smuggling weapons into to China, and rile up the populace, it will only bleed China a very, very little. China easily endure waging a civil war the size of Syrian, and continue growing economically like if nothing happened.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#76

Post by ceejayoz »

thepasswordis wrote: post #67
ceejayoz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. We're not counting the President of the United States as part of the US Government?

Is this a joke? Trump is the most anti-CCP president in the last 40 years. Please watch this Pompeo speech if you want to know how the Trump admin feels towards China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7azj-t0gtPM

The poster alleges the US Government opposes the DC protesters in the same way the CCP opposes the HK ones.

That requires not considering the US President to be part of the US Government for it to be true.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#77

Post by boardwaalk »

thepasswordis wrote: post #56

How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. HKers say they want democracy and fair elections. CCP and most Chinese think that's bullshit. MAGAs say they want democracy and fair elections. Most of the US Gov as well as mos…

Parallels of vague kind maybe, but it seems like you're way too close to a false equivalency for comfort here.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#78

Post by sbdisns »

orange_tee wrote: post #49
wwwwwwwww wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell you a secret: The CCP doesn't actually care about the rules of international law. Who is gonna stop them? Nobody.

Neither does the US or the UK or any other country that actually matters. And btw there is no such thing as international law.

I mean, you’re right, however most constitutions, including the US, put treaty obligations as equal in force of law.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#79

Post by minikites »

tinza123 wrote: post #59

Enough of these political posts on HN. If I want to see them I would head to r/news or NY Times. Strongly opinionated conclusion supported by piecemeal information aiming to inspire meaningless online battles with strangers? No thanks.

Everything is political. If you don't think so, it means you're protected by at least some kind of privilege. Rather than denying that, think about what advantages you have in your life that insulate you from the struggles of other people.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#80

Post by DaedPsyker »

thepasswordis wrote: post #67
ceejayoz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. We're not counting the President of the United States as part of the US Government?

Is this a joke? Trump is the most anti-CCP president in the last 40 years. Please watch this Pompeo speech if you want to know how the Trump admin feels towards China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7azj-t0gtPM

They are referring to that fact that Trump is a member of the government that his supporters railed against. Admittedly not wholly fair statement as US is a congressional system, not a parliamentarian with clear cut government and opposition.
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