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Is Everything Securities Fraud?

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111–115 of 115 posts

Re: Is Everything Securities Fraud?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too have seen the Facebook chain letter about how we could end world poverty for only $XX billion. But yes, let's definitely not fund malaria relief in the meantime.

Besides the unwarranted and unhelpful snark, you also took the weaker interpretation of my comment so you can defend your point of view. Neither are good signs for your argument. I said "less value" not "no value". In general there's less value in providing fragmented help in small chunks to individual people than there is in providing help via a large coordinated effort to entire populations. Even if the total is th…

> I said "less value" not "no value".

Value is subjective, you're just expressing the preference that there is less value to you.

> In general there's less value in providing fragmented help in small chunks to individual people than there is in providing help via a large coordinated effort to entire populations.

Only in the aggregate if less help is delivered. If the same amount of help gets there then the value is potentially the same, or more (or less).

> Even if the total is the same, the fact that it just trickled in and it lacked coordination can only hurt.

This is not true, the individual nature allows for more flexibility in meeting everyone's actual needs. "one size fits all" usually doesn't.

> And you won't effectively put out a big fire no matter how many cups of water you individually dump on it.

This is an inapt metaphor, probably because its physically false.

> Fittingly even the example you chose is bad simply because "malaria relief" still involves quite the coordinated effort, not the least financial, not individual people independently sending small help to a single other person.

Actually there are people sending malaria nets over there, the coordination problems you speak of are already solved.

Re: Is Everything Securities Fraud?

#113
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money doesn't actually belong to the shareholders, since a shareholder only owns the company stock not the company (stocks typically do not grant any ownership rights of any kind besides votes on management/corporate actions--many don't even do that). Companies can decide to re-allocate profits through dividends or buy-backs, but can also decide to re-allocate to other things that may not ultimately benefit the s…

As far as I know, everything you said is factually incorrect in the majority of cases. Common stock is a security that represents ownership in a corporation. In a liquidation, common stockholders receive whatever assets remain after creditors, bondholders, and preferred stockholders are paid. Do you have a source for these bold claims?

These aren't bold claims, it's literally how stocks work.

The belief of shareholders actually owning the company was just a side-effect of the marketing for shareholder primacy ideology. Even recent finance/management textbooks specifically call this out.

Some sources:

https://hbr.org/2012/07/what-good-are-shareholders

https://www.ft.com/content/7bd1b20a-879b-11e5-90de-f44762bf9...

Re: Is Everything Securities Fraud?

#114
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money doesn't actually belong to the shareholders, since a shareholder only owns the company stock not the company (stocks typically do not grant any ownership rights of any kind besides votes on management/corporate actions--many don't even do that). Companies can decide to re-allocate profits through dividends or buy-backs, but can also decide to re-allocate to other things that may not ultimately benefit the s…

Shareholders can just liquidate the company and redistribute the assets of the company based on the number of shares a person possesses. Liquidation is generally only done when absolutely necessary. Why close a functioning company if you can just sell it to someone else?

Shareholders can't liquidate a company.

Re: Is Everything Securities Fraud?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A securities fraud lawsuit against a company because the work environment is toxic reminds me of the movie Unforgiven. For those unaware, the movie starts with a cowboy disfiguring a prostitute with a knife because she laughed at him. After the incident, the guy who manages the brothel is financially compensated since he had invested money in bringing the prostitute to his place of business, money which he will presu…

"There's a real gap in our understanding of capitalism and crime if it's easier tom compensate shareholders of a toxic company than it is to compensate the direct victims of that toxic behaviour." Fortunately, the Strauss paper^1 on which this Levine newsletter entry is based does not suggest it is easier. Where did this idea come from. Instead, the author found that non-SEC regulators and primary victims generally r…

Exactly.

Even when I was selling securities, I never tried to pretend that Everything was Securities Legitimate.

When a corporation is prospering without any actual greed being detectable in their operations, that can be some of the most reliable investments.

There should be plenty of money without that.

This kind of thing seems to have always been hard to find, so it can really take some effort to snoop it out.

Some things have always been more legitimate than others.

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