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Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

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Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#91
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I strongly feel that this also affects you if you own a gun, in that it causes you to think more critically rather than just whip out a gun when you think a little bit threatened. It’s not legal in the US to “whip out a gun” if you feel a little threatened. You must literally fear for your life for you to use deadly force.

Took some time to find it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0iN5J-9mk Here you have a guy who felt a little threatened and shot another person for it claiming self defence, with a legal gun. In this case the ability to own a gun and parade with it changed how the guy was thinking about possible conflict and risks. That's largely because guns are so commonplace in US and not really treated with enough respect and tho…

This had nothing to do with gun control however. The stand your ground rules (different in each state) pertain to use of deadly force (using any kind of weapon, including your fists.)

Again you can not brandish (“parade”) a gun without a lawful reason.

I have a concealed carry permit in a state that allows open carry. I have no interest in drawing attention to myself. Nor would I draw my weapon without real fear for my life. Beyond the fact that I would hurt someone, which I am not interested in doing if there’s a viable alternative, the costs of defending yourself (lawyers, probably losing my job, etc) after a shooting would bankrupt most people.

For me, the idea of using a gun is as the last line of defense.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#92

> Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol The media is just shameless with their lying. They were bottles full of fuel. Commonly called Molotov Cocktails by anyone who's watched an action movie. BLM also used Molotov Cocktails, can't remember them being called bombs, because that would be a lie I guess. Alabama Man Charged With Possession of Eleven Molotov Cocktails Found Near Protest at U.S. Ca…

> Coffman, 70, told police he had mason jars filled with "melted Styrofoam and gasoline." Federal investigators believe that combination, if exploded, would have the effect of napalm "insofar as it causes the flammable liquid to better stick to objects that it hits upon detonation," according to the court record. > Police also found cloth rags and lighters. The court documents said that those items and the explosive-…

> told police he had mason jars filled with "melted Styrofoam and gasoline." Federal investigators believe that combination, if exploded, would have the effect of napalm "insofar as it causes the flammable liquid to better stick to objects that it hits upon detonation," according to the court record.

That’s the recipe for napalm in the old Anarchist’s Handbook. I don’t recall it working very well.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#93
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a failsafe to have a chance to fight in case the government and enough of its military and commanders become tyrannical. Different systems (democratic vs. tyrannical) have a different spread of when and how violence occurs. Gun violence, which can be lessened in America once adequate policy is in place to prevent dis-progression and heal mind-body-soul vs. genocide by CCP of specific population who didn't want t…

I actually agree that the 2nd amendment exists for this purpose (protect against a tyrannical government) and think that is a good thing. An armed private citizen stands zero chance of effecting any defense against our military. None. Zero. It'd be a joke. Futile. Even the most practiced and prepared "militias" would fairly quickly be put down if the full might and focus of the US military where to be trained on them…

It wouldn't be 100% of the military that would likely fall to tyranny or be controlled by a tyrant - there would be splintering and sides taken, who then can support and organize civilian militias.

There's really too much nuance and variables to argue this easily such as state of society, how rich or impoverished they are, how healthy or unhealthy they are - including their education - how open their heart and mind is, and so on.

A strong stable or stabilizing system - democracy in this case - that is capable of returning to the homeostasis with a forward-evolving movement will take an impressive attack to knock it down.

Of course there are bad actors who are trying to do such a thing, and due to all factors Biden won the election - and the Democrats won the Senate as well - so they can implement policy without being blocked by Republicans (nor extorted by giving $ trillions to corporations leveraging the need for stimulus-survival cheques) - and hopefully they implement new policies that will strengthen America and its democracy.

I believe Andrew Yang's core policies are the answer to breaking apart the duopoly and taking away the amalgamated power of the small handful of mainstream media channels (TV and newspapers) that amplify and support the duopoly: Democracy Dollars, Journalism Dollars, Ranked Choice Voting, Freedom Dividend/UBI, and Government Healthcare Option ("Medicare For All") to compete against the status quo - so people can become healthy and do their best to prevent dis-ease.

I agree with you that the State is an additional layer to reduce, limit, de-risk the potential of tyranny - perhaps then private gun ownership then becomes a layer against each State potentially becoming tyrannical, and if the State starts clamping down on people with bad behaviour - control-oppression-violence - to too severe of a degree, then arguably people will start moving to another State that is in line with their own values.

It's all about organization, alignment, and readying for defending against the different layers of potential conflict - whether citizen to citizen, citizen to State, citizen to Federal, State to Federal, Federal to Federal - the fight for democracy-freedom vs. tyranny, globally.

Edit to add: It's important when reasoning to understand how these situations unfold - they don't happen overnight and there is time to organize. There will be peak moments that act as signals - whether things are evolving or devolving: Biden was elected is one signal from one side, the continued attempted coup the other day, where sadly a handful of people died, is another signal from the side; like the genocide of Uighurs in China by the CCP is a signal from one side, on global scale. Generally the side that acts first in a physical violence means will be the less rational one, more aggressive and using anger which will blind them to some degree - "blind rage." This is why economic pressure via multi-lateral trade agreements between Democracies is the best starting solution - and with other policy can quickly reenforce the internal strength of those currently leaking economic value, ROI et al, to a bad actor who won't fall in line with freedom, health, non-violence, and so on; none of this is to say the US isn't guilty in some areas of unnecessary violence.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#94
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time gun regulation is brought up, conservatives claim the 2nd amendment is quite clear that guns are for revolution and that armed insurrection is somehow constitutional. I think we're now seeing the logical conclusion of that. You may well be right; senior dems have been too friendly with republicans as individuals for too long. Nothing ends that friendship like discovering them cheering on the people calling…

I hate that this is downvoted, because it's so clearly true. There is a heavily armed, deeply mistrustful subculture in this country that has been TRAINED by its leaders (including most of the now-minority party) that it is going to need to overthrow the government someday. And they tried. Last Wednesday. What happens when they succeed? Now, to be fair: I don't think guns (as machines) are the core problem here. Remo…

I think what you mean by "gun culture" is more "tacticool culture" which interests a sub set of firearms owners. I agree that this is a problematic culture, but it's not the dominant culture. A large number if not most gun owners including myself own firearms for lawful self defense, hunting, sport, or job related duties (eg ranching, security) and have no interest in running around in plate armor or joining a militia. While I acknowledge that my firearms could help me if a revolution were to break out, that is not why I bought them, it's not what I'm interested in, and I sincerely hope to never have to use them in that context.

It is worth noting that by constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people and spewing poorly researched nonsense, certain gun control advocates such as some in this very thread do a wonderful job of alienating all firearms owners and generating sympathy among the moderates who would otherwise support thoughtful regulation for members interested in these tacticool endeavors.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#95
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really the biggest difference would be a detachable magazine vs a non detachable magazine.

And selective fire. If it comes only in semi-auto configuration, as all legal AR-15 type rifles do, it's not an assault rifle. U.S. legislators are fond of using the deliberately similar sounding and confusing term "assault weapon" to refer to any rifle with military-style features.

Automatic fire other than for suppression isn’t effective if you want to kill people semi vs auto won’t make a big difference neither is 10 vs 30 rounds.

This is the problem with the gun control debate you either control all of them or none of them.

The assault weapons ban did absolutely squat to prevent gun violence in the US.

Being able to attach a bayonet or having to pin and weld a flash suppressor I mean sorry compensator or w/e they’ll call it to pass the requirements isn’t going to make a gun less deadly.

Honestly I don’t know what can be done in the US at this point there’s more guns than people, and despite the so called ammo shortages there are probably enough rounds out there to kill every person on the planet 10 times over.

There little that any gun control legislation other than a complete ban and confiscation campaign could do.

This is because if you look at gun violence you see essentially two groups neither of which could be prevented by stricter gun legislation.

One is people committing crimes/homicide with legally purchased firearms and passing all checks including any additional checks that any “sensible” gun legislation would introduce.

The other are people who obtain guns illegally by stealing them or buying them on the black or grey markets.

More background checks won’t stop them, especially not in the near term until guns become prohibitively expensive for most criminals to obtain but without confiscation that isn’t likely to happen.

There’s still gun violence in the UK as far as criminals go but that’s mostly limited to organized crime vs organized crime incidents other than that and the Irish border conflict related violence you can rally only get the odd crank that finds grandpa’s old shotgun with a few 50 year old hunting rounds.

Common criminals can’t afford to buy guns in the UK and many of them don’t want anything to do with firearms because of the response it would trigger.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#96
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took some time to find it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0iN5J-9mk Here you have a guy who felt a little threatened and shot another person for it claiming self defence, with a legal gun. In this case the ability to own a gun and parade with it changed how the guy was thinking about possible conflict and risks. That's largely because guns are so commonplace in US and not really treated with enough respect and tho…

This had nothing to do with gun control however. The stand your ground rules (different in each state) pertain to use of deadly force (using any kind of weapon, including your fists.) Again you can not brandish (“parade”) a gun without a lawful reason. I have a concealed carry permit in a state that allows open carry. I have no interest in drawing attention to myself. Nor would I draw my weapon without real fear for…

>I have a concealed carry permit in a state that allows open carry.... Nor would I draw my weapon without real fear for my life

Does it make you sad or disappointed you feel the need to carry a gun in your regular life just to feel safe and secure in your society?

I've lived ~20 years in Canad and ~20 in Australia. My sister has lived ~20 in Australia and ~20 in the UK. The idea we would ever, ever feel the need to carry a gun is preposterous.

The number of handguns either of us has seen in those countries in our life is exactly zero.

I've spent time in 55 countries around the world, including almost all of Latin America and Africa, and I have never once felt the need for a firearm.

The idea of living in a place where I feel the need to carry a lethal weapon is extremely hard to grasp. It's hard for me to read your comment and not think something is very wrong with a society when regular, peaceful and intelligent citizens feel the need to carry a firearm.

FWIW, I own a hunting rifle here in Canada (.30/06, Remmington 700) and I enjoy hunting very much.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#97
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took some time to find it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0iN5J-9mk Here you have a guy who felt a little threatened and shot another person for it claiming self defence, with a legal gun. In this case the ability to own a gun and parade with it changed how the guy was thinking about possible conflict and risks. That's largely because guns are so commonplace in US and not really treated with enough respect and tho…

This had nothing to do with gun control however. The stand your ground rules (different in each state) pertain to use of deadly force (using any kind of weapon, including your fists.) Again you can not brandish (“parade”) a gun without a lawful reason. I have a concealed carry permit in a state that allows open carry. I have no interest in drawing attention to myself. Nor would I draw my weapon without real fear for…

The reality is that significant part of population is stupid. Effective gun control as it is implemented in many countries aims to exclude stupid people from owning guns as much as possible by requiring that you have real, strong, certified need to carry a gun.

People who own a gun in such countries know exactly why they own a gun. In any of those countries you would very unlikely be allowed a permit.

For example, here in Poland there are only two reasons for getting firearms permit: constant, hightened danger to your own life or when your actual job is to protect other people. In both cases the reason must be proven and documented.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#98
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coffman, 70, told police he had mason jars filled with "melted Styrofoam and gasoline." Federal investigators believe that combination, if exploded, would have the effect of napalm "insofar as it causes the flammable liquid to better stick to objects that it hits upon detonation," according to the court record. > Police also found cloth rags and lighters. The court documents said that those items and the explosive-…

> told police he had mason jars filled with "melted Styrofoam and gasoline." Federal investigators believe that combination, if exploded, would have the effect of napalm "insofar as it causes the flammable liquid to better stick to objects that it hits upon detonation," according to the court record. That’s the recipe for napalm in the old Anarchist’s Handbook. I don’t recall it working very well.

> That’s the recipe for napalm in the old Anarchist’s Handbook. I don’t recall it working very well.

I messed around with it as a stupid teenager.

In my experience, it works very well.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#99

The most surprising thing to me is that despite guns on both sides there were only 4 deaths. I guess that either both the police did very well their jobs (after the fact) and/or the 'insurgents' (almost) only had their guns as symbols and/or there was a lot of luck involved.

We're up to 5 deaths now.

Not to mention those that will result from COVID branching out from this event. Which - while less related - when considering the actions of the instigator are certainly notable.

DC has a ton of security, and it's basically only legal for them to possess the guns. Carrying guns openly in this area would lead to a quick arrest.

So - I think you're right that there was a lot of luck, but also there was a lot of preparation.

Re: Police found pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol

#100
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This had nothing to do with gun control however. The stand your ground rules (different in each state) pertain to use of deadly force (using any kind of weapon, including your fists.) Again you can not brandish (“parade”) a gun without a lawful reason. I have a concealed carry permit in a state that allows open carry. I have no interest in drawing attention to myself. Nor would I draw my weapon without real fear for…

> I have a concealed carry permit in a state that allows open carry.... Nor would I draw my weapon without real fear for my life Does it make you sad or disappointed you feel the need to carry a gun in your regular life just to feel safe and secure in your society? I've lived ~20 years in Canad and ~20 in Australia. My sister has lived ~20 in Australia and ~20 in the UK. The idea we would ever, ever feel the need to…

My thoughts exactly.

People say they need guns for defense. I can empathize with this, but I also understand that is just because there are other stupid people around carrying guns. There would not be a problem if nobody around had a gun.

In countries like that there are outlets for people to be able to shoot guns. In Poland you can go to a shooting range and you can also get a permit for hunting or sport rifle. In either case the use of the gun is restricted so that general population doesn't have to worry about being around people with guns.

I never felt a need to have a gun, ever. You don't have to worry about stupid entitled people either, they are harmless.

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