Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#901

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:02 AM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #884

I don’t understand this attitude which consists of censoring objectionable content like one sweeps dirt under the carpet. If what these people are saying is illegal, just go and arrest them, make them face a judge and go to jail. Otherwise, let them have fun with their silly petty flat earth theories, or whatever imaginary BS they fancy.

Why should Apple or Twitter have to maintain platforms full of content that 99% of their useless object to even though it’s legal (bullying, racism, whatever)?

The bar for illegal speech is extremely high, especially in the US. That’s usually a good thing.

I don’t want to read that content. More importantly, I don’t want to advertise on the platform with that content.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#902

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #70

newfeatureok wrote: post #15

I'm honestly curious - where is the line drawn between a service being used to do "questionable" things and it being removed? We can all agree, for example, that the internet at large enables many bad things, but I doubt any of us would ban the internet (though in other countries this happens). What about reddit? A specific subreddit? A specific post? A specific user? A specific post by a specific user at a specific…

If I create a platform that only follows US-law and allows everything else, I would: 1. Be deplatformed 2. called a racist 3. called a pedophile 4. have my life threatened that's the state of politics in this country. Thank you Media. We need something decentralized and bullet-proof. Enough of these charlatans.

You’d be accused of creating a platform for nazis and pedophiles unless you remove that content. And rightly so. Allowing everything isn’t a shield from that accusation, nor should it be. Good faith moderation is.

Since there are platforms without that content, the effect of starting a new platform allowing it is that you get a disproportionate amount of the most extreme content. You become the gab or parler or t_d.win.

Next, if your content has an extremely high ratio of content that must be moderated to be allowed in a “parent service” (App Store, cloud provider, credit card company) then your moderation burden is higher than your competition. Your ad revenue is also likely smaller. So basically, it’s simply very difficult economically to create such a platform.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#903

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

agensaequivocum wrote: post #870

snarf21 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can still use the web interface, right? It is only their app that is violating ToS. I think it would be different in Apple was blocking their DNS.

Apple should probably remove Safari since there's too much unmoderated content on the open web.

Apple doesn’t take any responsibility for websites. They moderate the App Store. Anything on the App Store is there with Apple’s blessing. That includes the content inside third party apps that is only created by its users.

Apple just don’t want to be associated with it.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#904

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #63

Some of the screenshots seem objectionable, e.g. the one that wanted to burn down Pelosi's house while she was still inside, others seem like opinions, e.g. the one saying the protester shot by police was murdered, but none seem particularly bad, where "particularly bad" means "worse than content I'd find on Twitter". Seems inconsistent to me to ban Parler and not Twitter. Also seems undesirable for a phone manufactu…

It’s not the content that’s the issue here. It’s whether Apple believes they are actually enforcing their ToS with moderation. Currently they don’t.

The problem is that even if Parler wanted to moderate (I doubt it - they’d lose users) there is no way they could afford it unless they invent something very cost efficient and don’t rely on manual review.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#905

Post by subsection1h » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:23 AM UTC

rangoon626 wrote: post #783

all_factz wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by gut, instinct and the bubbles they’re in instead of by critical thinking. These people believe abortion is killing an innocent baby. They don’t want their tax dollars spent on thing X. They believe the election was rigged — evidence doesn’t come into it. How do…

Just wanna add that the left seems to believe what institutions and the legacy media tell them, at face value. Many on the right use critical thinking, however they seem to believe that numbers and “science” can be spun into any narrative the gatekeepers want (whoever they may be). Most of the schism really seems to be based on trust. Left trusts by default, the right does not. The left trusts that the government kno…

> Many on the right use critical thinking [...] Left trusts by default, the right does not.

LOL. Only 4 percent of the nonreligious people who participated in the 2017 Baylor Religion Survey voted for Trump. 4 fucking percent.

https://www.baylor.edu/baylorreligionsurvey/index.php?id=942...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#906

Post by burlesonK » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

wisty wrote: post #856

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Racism was the absolute norm in the US until ~not that long ago. The racists during the time of slavery and Jim Crow made no attempt to deny their racism. The large majority of Republicans, including Trump, denounce racism. The news will find every schmuck with a confederate flag and put them on the TV, but that doesn't explain why a Republican majority Senate passed criminal justice reform and Trump signed it. > S…

You seem to be contributing to the discussion, but people are downvoting without actually voicing any disagreement. This seems to be common when you take the conservative "side" even if it's not really a partisan position you take, simply disagreeing with implications that the entire right are dumb racists.

I'm starting to believe down-voting has gotten more useless and should be removed. Perhaps up-voting is sufficient, but maybe not.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#907

Post by blackrock » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:31 AM UTC

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #716

nxc18 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels Why do you think this? Racism was the absolute norm in the US until ~not that long ago. It’s literally written into the constitution and it took literal bloodshed to change that. And then when we did, there was massive pushback in the form of Jim Crow laws. Statistically you’d expect half of people to be dumber than a…

Where is racism "literally written" into the constitution? edit: look I know it's bad form on here to complain about being downvoted, but I was asking an honest question. Chill, people.

If you seriously don’t know about this, then the parent poster’s comment about schooling, is completely accurate.

> Our (non-higher) education system in the US is nothing to be proud of and wildly inconsistent at best.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#908

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

TheGRS wrote: post #834

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already know from history what happens when large groups are disenfranchised from the public sphere. Violence. Lots of it. And once it starts, it's not easily stopped. Some welcome this because they think it can be managed for their own purposes. But once civil order breaks down, things simply accelerate with no possibility of talk being able to stop it anymore. It takes on a life of its own. Those who dream of th…

Also the main argument this group was making for the last 2 months was to disenfranchise much of the US voting population. The people voted, and this group attempted to say it wasn't legitimate. They proved nothing in court to their claims, but persisted anyway right up until they got worked up into a frenzy and stormed the Capitol.

Voter ID, removal of hackable voting machines, and hand count of votes are not disenfranchisement. You may have been told by the media that it is, but it's not. Many advanced democracies have such things in place.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#909

Post by globular-toast » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

They were never part of the public debate. The internet made it seem like they were for a while. Now the powers that be are making it right again.

Technocracy is the natural way of things. Democracy is just an illusion to keep people happy.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#910

Post by cmsj » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 11:18 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

Why is there always this call to treat the less moderate right wing, who are clearly not connected with reality anymore, as though they are simultaneously extremely powerful, and weak little babies who need our help?

When those people hold the reigns of power, they don't stop to think about how we're feeling. Why should we walk ourselves to them, why shouldn't they reflect on their anger and its consequences, and walk themselves to us?