Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes • Hacker News Board

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#41

Post by Vinnl » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

It's only until the end of your post where you say "unless it builds some of those features into its app". That's kind of an important qualifier. Signal has been steadily growing for a while, and while doing so, implementing plenty of features from other competing apps: disappearing messages came, stickers came, group video calling came, etc.

I'm not saying they're definitely going to overtake WhatsApp, but they've found a niche, are slowly expanding from there, and are doing so by implementing desired features. That's how most social networks have gotten where they are. There's no reason why Signal's current feature set is forever set in stone.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#42

Post by richardw » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

Method-X wrote: post #38

throwthrowcatch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal will be become popular -- if it does -- just like how every other network based app became popular eg. MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, Instagram, Snapchat. Examples from work... Zoom, Slack etc. First it's used among a small group of people, has a "cool"ness factor and a USP. Then slowly spreads as other people want to be seen as ahead of the curve and want to be part of an exclusive group. So the Hacker…

> What will make WhatsApp lose? It would have to be something fundamental. Any new feature that gains significant popularity can easily be added to WhatsApp (e.g. stories); in addition to having network effects working in their favour.

For me, it’s the dilution of networks. WhatsApp has a purpose and it’s different from FB. Now I have my bike mechanic friending me on FB because I’m a contact on WA. I don’t want some smoosh of all my connections.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#43

Post by Klonoar » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:04 AM UTC

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

I love Signal and want it to be "the winner" here... but I mostly agree with you, with one caveat.

The internet kind of functions differently in some parts of the world, and if you've spent time in those regions, you see it's pretty aligned with what you've described. Like, there is a reason that Facebook bought WhatsApp to begin with. Those "ecosystems" are incredibly valuable.

Now, the thing that makes me open to being wrong? The absolute horror of a reputation that Facebook has as of late. I think if this was the debate a few years ago, it'd be much harder for Signal to pull people away, but now...

Go, Signal, go.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#44

Post by andy1729 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:07 AM UTC

hiyer wrote: post #26

Telegram is quite popular in India too - especially for group communication since it has a much higher membership limit. A lot of the Whatsapp groups I was part of have now moved there.

Telegram is more popular for free movies, tv series download that otherwise can only be accessed by having a subscription plan on platforms like Netflix, amazon prime etc

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#45

Post by jillesvangurp » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

I've seen chat networks come and go. Whatsapp is at it's peak; it can only decline at this point. Most users don't actually care about features, they care about reaching each other. Whatsapp provides that. You could argue that whatsapp was never about the features. It's always been a somewhat bland and bare bones UX. It's simple and easy to understand. That kind of is the whole point.

But Whatsapp got where it is through 1 simple feature: it discovered other whatsapp users through your phone book so that made it easy to start using it. Install the app, and others would find you. That feature has since been copied by world + dog. Telegram, Signal, etc. do the same. Now that both are getting to the hundreds of millions of users (telegram got there ages ago), that safe moat that whatsapp enjoyed is not so safe anymore. I know non technical users that are very eager to escape Facebook's clutches that already deleted their facebook profiles and installed alternative chat clients. Moving over is easier than ever.

Anyway, I'm old enough to remember reluctantly joining the msn network because a lot of people I knew started using that. ICQ, AOL, MSN, Yahoo Messenger, etc. all used to be popular and now are pretty much gone. Whatsapp can easily join those ranks. There's nothing inevitable about its perpetual monopoly on communication. Nothing whatsoever.

If anything, Facebook seems in a hurry to blow its feet off with misguided/dubious decisions on privacy, user hostile actions, and increasing likelihood of having to deal with anti trust legislation in multiple of its markets. It's not helping their case. Every time they are in the news it seems to have a negative tone and some of their users act on it. Facebook is being arrogant.

Signal is a breath of fresh air in this space. Structured as a foundation, OSS client and server (unlike most other things out there). Apparently, Elon Musk recommending it the other day caused a nice influx of users.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#46

Post by KorematsuFred » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

I sort of agree. I call my mom on Whatsapp and there is not way this can change. Both of us are going to use Whatsapp. This is just an anecdotal example of network effects.

But this is also not a winner take all market as I think of it. I am a heavy user of telegram and massive broadcasts happen on Telegram. College students, Twitter handles banned on Twitter etc. have switched to telegram. You subscribe to a channel of a banned user and there is nothing Telegram can do about it.

Signal is especially popular among my political activist friends and few other friends.

Kik remains popular for some narrow cases I will not mention here.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#47

Post by kitkat_new » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

Klonoar wrote: post #43

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

I love Signal and want it to be "the winner" here... but I mostly agree with you, with one caveat. The internet kind of functions differently in some parts of the world, and if you've spent time in those regions, you see it's pretty aligned with what you've described. Like, there is a reason that Facebook bought WhatsApp to begin with. Those "ecosystems" are incredibly valuable. Now, the thing that makes me open to b…

I'd rather want Matrix to be the winner here. Signal is just another ecosystem that will profit from the network effect once it's big.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#48

Post by manojlds » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

This is so true. All the "uncles and aunts" of India use stories to share stuff that is predominantly god photos and related.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#49

Post by npteljes » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

oska wrote: post #16

codeknight11 wrote: post #5

Signal won't be able to make even a dent in WhatsApp's empire. WhatsApp isn't just a messaging app. With its stories and statuses, it's a mini social network in and of itself. Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. They care about features. Signal won't be able to compete with WhatsApp unless it builds some of those features into its app. Edit - HackerNews crowd seems to get tunnel visione…

> Beyond the HackerNews crowd, most people don't care about privacy. I really do not agree with this often-made assertion. The main difference between the HN crowd and the general public is that we are more likely to understand how, and how extensively, our privacy is being compromised. We are used to considering computer logs and monitoring as very real (because we work with them / create them); the general public n…

Unfortunately this doesn't explain why my circle of colleagues, at a major tech company, also don't care actively about this stuff. My take: these privacy violations get accepted because there is immediate positive feedback, and the negative stuff is delayed, misattributed, or never felt at all.

Re: Signal gaining popularity in India after WhatsApp policy changes

#50

Post by drno123 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 10:05 AM UTC

mmsimanga wrote: post #23

In the part of Africa I am from, the challenge is cellular network providers sell data bundles specifically for WhatsApp. It is so much cheaper to buy a social media data bundle than generic data to use for browsing the web. As a result Telegram and Signal cannot compete. WhatsApp is literally the internet.

What incentive do network providers have to do that?