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Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

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Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how you're seriously considering this comparison. The actions by Apple, Google or Twitter are not a massacre on the political enemy (in fact, I don't consider companies to have political enemies beyond the SEC and other regulatory instances). It's not even a call to murder anyone. On the other hand, the "Nacht der Langen Dolche" was a coordinated massacre of (among others victims?) political enemies, wi…

This is a coordinated silencing political enemies, with the goal to reinforce the political power of a discriminatory regime. You are banned on Twitter and Facebook, you can not have your own app, your web hosting will drop you (they call on Cloudflare to drop thedonald), they'll revoke your domains and ssl certificates... Literally giving you no options at all to speak online, CCP style. So the only difference here…

I respectfully disagree. To put this straight, I am all in on free speech (which is one of our basic rights). Entirely independent on whether I agree with the content or not. However, at some point most countries realized that it is not okay to speak some things. Most of these things essentially revolve around planning to kill people, or violently fighting results of fair elections.

Yes, both is happening on the Internet for ages, and yes, it will always happen, no matter what. But the radicalization of the past years culminated in the events of the last days. We can either tolerate that and wait until these actions destroy our democracies (this effect is called the "Paradox of Tolerance"; if you don't know it, look it up), or carefully act against it.

Asking Parler to moderate content to not call for violence and putting an end to spreading lies about the election result is legitimate and in the interest of all of us, it is such a careful act. Now Parler has the choice to become a platform for conservative thinkers and opionions - or a platform of hate fueling violence against "others". Blocking the former would be grave mistake, as you say yourself. As for blocking the later, I think I made my point clear.

Over & out, unless you make a really good counter argument.

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a coordinated silencing political enemies, with the goal to reinforce the political power of a discriminatory regime. You are banned on Twitter and Facebook, you can not have your own app, your web hosting will drop you (they call on Cloudflare to drop thedonald), they'll revoke your domains and ssl certificates... Literally giving you no options at all to speak online, CCP style. So the only difference here…

I respectfully disagree. To put this straight, I am all in on free speech (which is one of our basic rights). Entirely independent on whether I agree with the content or not. However, at some point most countries realized that it is not okay to speak some things. Most of these things essentially revolve around planning to kill people, or violently fighting results of fair elections. Yes, both is happening on the Inte…

Paradox of tolerance is a hypocritical bullshit, I commented about it a couple of hours ago [1]

As for blocking calls for violence. I stand on a position that allowing such calls is an acceptable price for a free speech. I come from Russia, where all restrictions on free speech are made on the pretemse of 'calls to extremism', people who are against Putin are jailed, and sentenced, for exactly this. So no, I've seen where this road leads to. If people gather on Parler to storm the Capitol, find them using police measures and prosecute them. It's harder than bans, but has much fewer harmful side-effects, like eventual authoritatian state.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25692644

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Web is as open and free as it has ever been. Arguably more so given that the barrier to entry e.g. cost for creating and promoting a site has come down. And we have examples such as Parler and TheDonald.win. You just don't have a right to demand that the Facebook and Apple's of the world help to amplify your voice.

threeseed, I do not believe that you have an accurate mental model of the world or technology and social platforms in particular. It could be argued that "the web is as open and free as it ever has been", but I do not think this argument could be made honestly. Even though many of the mechanisms for accessing websites exist as they did many years ago, the "surface area" of the internet that most people are able to di…

>the "surface area" of the internet that most people are able to discover and access is significantly reduced due to search engine algorithms

On the contrary, Facebook promoting incendiary content because people (angrily) highly engage with it vastly increases the surface area of the internet. Fringe sites get much more attention than they ever could before Facebook existed.

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. To put this straight, I am all in on free speech (which is one of our basic rights). Entirely independent on whether I agree with the content or not. However, at some point most countries realized that it is not okay to speak some things. Most of these things essentially revolve around planning to kill people, or violently fighting results of fair elections. Yes, both is happening on the Inte…

Paradox of tolerance is a hypocritical bullshit, I commented about it a couple of hours ago [1] As for blocking calls for violence. I stand on a position that allowing such calls is an acceptable price for a free speech. I come from Russia, where all restrictions on free speech are made on the pretemse of 'calls to extremism', people who are against Putin are jailed, and sentenced, for exactly this. So no, I've seen…

That just an assertion, not an argument.

Or put it otherwise: A lot of these people believe that the "vote has been stolen" from them. The way a lot of those people look at the world, their actions are the only the logical consequence. Now, you say it is okay to prosecute them, but it is not okay to prevent false information to be spread? But if you tolerate lies and hate, then why do you not tolerate people acting on these? Look in the mirror, and you'll see the Paradox of Tolerance staring right back at you.

If you need personal positions: Even here in Germany (in the past we were pretty good at ignoring the inconvenient truths, one should think we [and the world?] may have learned from that) some people honestly believe those Q crap of how rich people living virtually forever due to some substance that's harvested from literal child abuse (and obviously the gov is in on it). I-forgot-half-of-the-BS fighting against robots under the surface of the earth? Got you covered (also, the gov is in on it, obviously). Immigrants come here to replace the old populace? Those people believe that, and, needless to say, the gov is in on this as well. Last but not least: Covid is a fake, and the vaccine actually is a chip that looks very much like the circuit of a guitar effect pedal and not like a real IC? You bet the gov is doing that (with the help of Bill Gates).

And, I repeat: Some people are believing this. They think the world is exactly like that. And of course they think someone should really do something about it.

You see where this is leading? Bad actors seeding lies and misinformation for their end (overthrow the gov and put those in charge who "spread the truth"). Of course you can jail the occasional shooter (politicians and synagogues are targets of choice), but by letting these bad actors continue "in the name of tolerance", you're creating a society which is tolerant in theory, but in practice you might need to be careful what you say because you end up on the wrong end of a baseball bat (lucky you) or bullet (less nice than the bat). This doesn't happen over a year, but in the long game, this will end badly. Oh, and yes, this is: The Paradox of Tolerance.

It's not like we're talking about minimum wage or the right amount of social welfare here. I mean, one can argue about these and there is no objective truth of what's best - at least none that we can measure without a time machine and/or infinite multiverses.

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#76
There is no argument for censorship, suspension or banning, based on our 1st amendment—- on any of the multiple platforms doing so.

I came on here just to check what the “young intellectual tech” community thinks— I consider myself part of it. I’m a 20-something female, born in the heart of Silicon Valley, and have been heavily involved in tech during my short career.

Heads up: This isn’t animal farm, this is 1984!

I never post on here and stopped reading awhile ago due to the one-minded propaganda I consistently find on the site these days (i was a lurker a longtime before i made this account) but I feel compelled to share my opinion because these times matter, and us young (and old) folks matter.

Amen and a-women? Welcome to the best addition to New Speak. Please look that up if you don’t know what it is. Have you zoomed out on how Big (and Little) Tech had subtle involvement here? And how they may be affecting how you’re thinking? I can personally say after having deleted social media for almost 2 years, and combing through different sources (time consuming)- I feel very differently now than I did four years, or eight years ago. See my links below.

“I don’t like Trump” and “not being a Trump supporter,” standing behind Big Tech — the badges of honor on Hacker News. But here’s my practical advice: be very careful who you’re choosing. Everything in life is a trade off— even who’s in the White House, who’s in office, who you’re casting your votes for, the apps you use, and the companies you give your money and support to.

Another piece of advice: for some laughs, and practical news these days, check out AwakenwithJP and Brett Pella :-) (seriously all their videos are pretty good, especially JP!)

Another piece: Hear other perspectives “i was wrong about the Democratic Party,” Georgia H.

Finally, I’ll close with this recommendation: “when the plague arrives,” NTD.

Hope you hackers open your big brains, put your thinking caps on and leave confirmation bias in the past.

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Trump idolizing nonsense. Most people simply voted for the republican. It could have been anybody.

we voted against ‘liberal’ version of fascism. Unfortunately fascism won.

You mean Social Progressivism?

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#78
post #30

Stallman was right.

No, he was left... and still is. More seriously, it will be curious to see what he thinks of all this recent unrest as it relates to free software and such.

https://stallman.org/

So far he wrote about the riots in DC by Trump supporters. He hasn't mentioned the banning of Trump on social media or Parlor from the Apple and Google stores.

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#79

I'd really hoped for de-escalation, but we're going in exactly the opposite direction.

That's also what I thought. Instead of using fire extinguishers, FB/Apple/Google are adding more gasoline to the fire. This is going to radicalize people (especially conspiracy theorists) who now think have actual, indisputable "proof" these companies are there to get them.

> "proof"

Can you really say that they're wrong? There might not be a conspiracy, but the "out to get them" seems pretty accurate. I predict payment processors will also attempt to deplatform parler soon enough.

Re: Google Bans Parler from the Google Play Store

#80
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Trump idolizing nonsense. Most people simply voted for the republican. It could have been anybody.

we voted against ‘liberal’ version of fascism. Unfortunately fascism won.

Words still have specific, falsifiable definitions.
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