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Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

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Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#961

Post by stjohnswarts »

dominotw wrote: post #852
germinalphrase wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference, of course, is that despite there being a significant number of ‘trusted’ sources claiming extensive election fraud - there has been near zero evidence presented by these same sources to defend the claims. That alone should be a red flag that the claims are mere assertions rather than statements of fact.

shouldn't the onus of proving that there was no fraud be on the govt, instead of the other way around. In an ideal world is there way to prove definitively that there was no fraud? Or is this something unprovable.

It's impossible to prove there was no fraud, however if there was fraud it's extremely likely someone would be able to find it, so the lack of evidence is reasonable enough test of the election's validity. Otherwise there can be no democracy other than direct public democracy.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#962

Post by stjohnswarts »

disown wrote: post #432
neogodless wrote: post #114

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/896/censorship > In general, sedition is defined as trying to overthrow the government with intent and means to bring it about; the Supreme Court, however, has been divided over what constitutes intent and means. > These acts made it a federal crime to speak, write, or print criticisms of the government that were false, scandalous, or malicious. It is frightening to me tha…

> As a person of logic and reason and based on multiple sources of information that I consider reputable Name it. What sources? Every major news source has been complaining about "election theft" for 4 years and warning about election theft in 2020. The issue with corrupt elections has been around at least since 2000 ( Bush v Gore ). Here is an NYU professor giving a lecture about it in 2008 ( about the bush election…

An yet in 20 years, no one has presented any proof of actual election fraud. However there are tons and tons of evidence that foreign powers like Russia and China troll and spread millions of fake stories to fool more gullible Americans. I don't recall a single democrat saying "the dominion voting machines are fake data!" And yet here we are with a President seeing election fraud everywhere with not one solid piece of evidence. Only accusations.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#963

Post by pedroma »

pjc50 wrote: post #619
pedroma wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why *chan websites have gotten so popular. Being anonymous in everything you post is refreshing. Short of posting illegal content, almost anything goes.

"Refreshing" in the "great place to plan a coup" sense? Eventually they are going to find that there's a limit to how much violence you can incite before getting slapped down, legally or otherwise.

There's many reasons why I find it refreshing.

Other than anonymity, talking to people who have no incentive to karma-farm is very refreshing.

In websites like Reddit/HackerNews, the karma system gamifies posting. You "lose" if you post any wrongthink, and you "win" when you reiterate whatever is socially acceptable.

This means there are consequences to posting. In *chan websites, there is no consequence to posting your thoughts (or just trolling, because that's fun sometimes).

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#964

Post by neogodless »

perl4ever wrote: post #946
neogodless wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective, every article on Reuters included the phrase "claimed without evidence" in regards to election fraud. For me, trusting Reuters, that is sufficient information. From a believer's perspective, articles mentioned affidavits, eye-witness testimony, court cases being filed, and important, trusted people saying something along the lines of "there is evidence the courts are not even considering!" Presum…

I really don't trust Reuters, CNN, the NY Times, or whoever. I think people exaggerate and misidentify the source of their beliefs, but being honest about why you take a side is a better way to convince. What I trust is that if Trump had serious allegations with evidence, that Republican election officials in Georgia would treat them seriously rather than debunking them in the midst of death threats. Or that some Rep…

I don't really spend any time on CNN, and NY Times requires me to jump through hoops sometimes to read articles, as I do not have a subscription. I'll take Reuters and AP News at face value unless there's something spectacular that needs investigating (which would not be the norm.) So unless there's a claim such as that all across the nation, poll workers, election officials, appointed judges, etc. are all coordinating a well-concealed attack on the integrity of an election... well conspiracy theories need considerable evidence. That is, I mean, they need evidence that is clear, falsifiable, verifiable. Then I have to dig deeper.

I also trust peers with a similar threshold. If none of my intelligent friends and family members with a history of digging deeply into fantastic claims believe the current fantastic claim, I don't tend to feel the need to do such digging myself. If one of them was suddenly making a grandiose claim, I would sit up and notice and have to investigate further.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#965

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

ravenstine wrote: post #37
typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

That's the danger in going to such lengths to shut down disagreeable viewpoints. People say "make your own website", but that becomes a race to the bottom when we start politicizing server hosts and ISPs. When you completely shut people up, that doesn't mean they're gone, and now you don't know what they're thinking. Meanwhile you're actually tyrannical because a monopoly on information makes the mass 80% believe tha…

> When you completely shut people up, that doesn't mean they're gone

It does mean that they cannot effectively find other people with the same opinion, cannot organize, and cannot spread their opinion effectively. Suppression of opinions _works_ (unfortunately, I must say).

Taking that option away from people scares me a lot more than the MAGA mob. People storming government buildings can also be a good thing (uprisings against oppressive governments). It wasn't in this case, obviously, but the damage this mob caused, including the lives lost, is nothing compared to the absolutely terrifying situation of a totalitarian government and all communication platforms being "curated".

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#966

Post by disown »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #962
disown wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a person of logic and reason and based on multiple sources of information that I consider reputable Name it. What sources? Every major news source has been complaining about "election theft" for 4 years and warning about election theft in 2020. The issue with corrupt elections has been around at least since 2000 ( Bush v Gore ). Here is an NYU professor giving a lecture about it in 2008 ( about the bush election…

An yet in 20 years, no one has presented any proof of actual election fraud. However there are tons and tons of evidence that foreign powers like Russia and China troll and spread millions of fake stories to fool more gullible Americans. I don't recall a single democrat saying "the dominion voting machines are fake data!" And yet here we are with a President seeing election fraud everywhere with not one solid piece o…

> An yet in 20 years, no one has presented any proof of actual election fraud.

And yet the media, academics, politicians, etc all bring up over and over. I wonder why?

> However there are tons and tons of evidence that foreign powers like Russia and China troll and spread millions of fake stories to fool more gullible Americans

Tons? Where?

> I don't recall a single democrat saying "the dominion voting machines are fake data!"

Other than warren, klobucharm, wyden, etc?

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobu...

Warren even wanted to get rid of voting machine to make our election secure.

https://time.com/5613673/warren-election-security/

Also, as I noted, issues with voting machines were mostly a democratic concern in the 2000s due to the Bush victories. Voting machine problem isn't a new issue. It's been around for decades.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#967

Post by adamsea »

dang wrote: post #822
adamsea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship of what? Tell me specifically the content of the speech being censored, so we can have a reasonable discussion about if there might be a rare but valid reason to censor said speech. Also, go fuck yourself. [EDIT: Lets get to the heart of it. If you refuse to accept the results of the election, you are promoting treason. If you want to play second-grade word games to explain why President Trump isnt respons…

This and other comments you've been posting (like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25688419 ) have been breaking the site guidelines egregiously. That's dismaying and disappointing. We ban accounts that do this kind of thing, so please stop doing it. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and only post when you can keep that standard. Yes, we tell everyone else (including ourselves) the sa…

Thank you. To reiterate, however, tolerant societies should not and cannot tolerate intolerance.

People promoting the “election fraud” lie, or supporting the insurrection/coup attempt are undermining democracy and are borderline seditious. It’s not okay to spread that lie, and if not ban, HN should at least officially condemn those false and odious beliefs.

Right now I believe it’s our civic duty to make clear that those beliefs are unacceptable and anti-democratic and will not be tolerated.

I don’t know if you really understand that an armed mob attempted to take hostage members of Congress in order to stop the certification of the new, legitimately elected President.

What do you believe? If supporting that isn’t the line that someone should be condemned for crossing, and shunned, then what is?

HN - your silence is complicity. How do you think people of color feel reading HN comments where folks argue how racism isn’t really a thing or was “solved” in the 60s? Do they feel like people are being kind according to the guidelines?

What does it say about you if you ban me for what I said, but keep the racists and folks who wouldn’t mind seeing Trump get three or four or five more terms, because I’m honest about my beliefs but they hide behind junior-high level verbal wordplay?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#968

Post by beerandt »

pfdietz wrote: post #948
beerandt wrote: post #942

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, holding a proper/legal election that is fully transparent and fully observed, without changing rules, disregarding the legislature, etc... precludes the need for any "proof" whatsoever. However, lacking that, yes, the election officials should be made to prove that the procedures that were actually used were fair. It's a retroactive proving of the process . A security audit in light of a system change. If that ca…

The rule changes weren't reason to toss out votes. That quibbling that was shot down by judges. In particular, the rule changes were neutral with respect to any candidate. Your objection about the rule changes is, of course, that it allowed more of the wrong kind of people to vote legally. It's naked anti-democratic BS, attempting to masquerade as a valid concern.

The constitution clearly says the election shall be held via methods as prescribed by the state legislators.

Disagreements between branches of state government should have defaulted to the legislature, but didn't in most of the states in question. Especially true in PA, where the legislature specifically voted against implementing the same rules that the court then imposed anyway.

Even worse, they ignored Alito's court order to segregate ballots. (Which admittedly ended up being a moot point, other than showing general non-compliance.)

So yes, I think the rule changes are a reason to disqualify either votes or an entire election.

>It's naked anti-democratic BS, attempting to masquerade as a valid concern.

That's a political opinion, not a legal one. Which makes it the legislators decision, not the state court's.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#969

Post by diveanon »

nomel wrote: post #773
diveanon wrote: post #345

More virtue signaling for the incoming administration. Reddit, Facebook, and most of all Twitter need to take a hard look at themselves and role they played in all of this. Waiting until after an armed insurrection occurs is not good enough.

If they used a privately hosted forum, should that forum owner take some of the blame? Would about IRC server operator? What about an iMessage group? Most of this was probably made discoverable by google searches. Should google take some of the blame? I don't understand why we have to blame the means of communication and method of discoverability rather than the, most likely mentally disturbed, people. Claiming that…

If someone used my forum to organize terrorist attacks then I should be held accountable.

If google searches, facebook groups, twitter recommendations, and subreddjts drove people towards content that radicalized them and continued to reinforce that radicalization then those companies should be held accountable.

I used to work in biomed, and if an algorithm I wrote resulted in people dying I would expect to face consequences. I don't see why the largest companies on the same planet aren't held to a similar standard while pushing for "engagement".

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