Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#551

Post by beerandt » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

decebalus1 wrote: post #322

beerandt wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 14th amendment applies right now, as is. It's as much of a civil rights issue as it is freedom of speech.

Does it tho? The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. Arguably one of the most consequential amendments, it addresses citizenship rights and equal protection under the law and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particul…

It's the equal protection amendment.

The meaning of it has been "stretched" a bit (at least from the pov of a textualist/originalist) to constitutionally justify civil rights laws applied to individuals/businesses, not just state governments.

So it's "true meaning" is often debated, but as I understand it:

If civil rights laws can be/ are interpreted to apply to individuals and businesses via the 14th (which they are), it's hard to also square that diversity of political opinion is not also protected, given that it's the ultimate civil right and we're a democratic-republic.

From wiki: "nor shall any State ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws". It mandates that individuals in similar situations be treated equally by the law.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#552

Post by lenkite » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

caconym_ wrote: post #191

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

Please remove the blinkers. Dozens of murderous world leaders that regularly espouse violence are still on Twitter but Trump is eliminated.

BLM leaders who explicitly called for violence, arson and looting were never "fact-checked". Not until they started openly talking about murdering whites.

Face it - this is because the Twitter CEO actively dislikes Trump and has little to do with any sort of violent speech.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#553

Post by tanseydavid » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #526

botwriter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

A significant number of people are threatened by rational critical thinking. They instill these values in their children who then they go off on raving rampages touting false patriotism. You can't make them listen. Taking away their echo chambers is the only way to cool them off.

"You can't make them listen."

You are correct about that but why are you so set on making other adults think the way you do?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#554

Post by busymom0 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:59 AM UTC

Enough people need to put pressure on these companies to stop censorship. These companies still care a bit about emails and customer reviews. This is why cancel culture gets away with it because they mass email them to take down and de-platform people. Here's an email template. You can modify it as needed and send it.

I sent it to these two emails WHICH ARE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE ON THEIR SITE so I am not doxxing:

product-security@apple.com

tcook@apple.com

----------- TEMPLATE:

I wasn't able to find a specific place to send this feedback so using this email. Please forward to the relevant department.

I am a brown immigrant to Canada. I usually don't mention my race but it seems relevant in this topic. I as well as my family own several Apple products including iPhones, MacBooks, Mac Minis etc. Several of us and my friends are also developers for the App Store. I am deeply disappointed in Apple threatening censorship and banning of apps which don't align with Apple staff's views. I understand calls to violence are unacceptable but Apple banning apps like Parler just for political speech which isn't violence is deeply disappointing.

I am not sure if you are aware but apps like Twitter, Reddit have and allow porn, illegal porn, and regularly calls to violence. Twitter allows violent terrorists like Antifa, Iranian dictator who calls for assassination and violence to stay on their platform but has banned a democratically elected President just because they disagree with him. Facebook has banned WalkAway group - founded by a gay man, with 500000 members consisting of ex-liberals who have left the democrat party. These members were mainly gays, blacks, brown, hispanics, women etc who have now been banned by Facebook. How can Apple accept apps like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit which openly allow porn, illegal content etc while banning gays, blacks, hispanics etc simply because they are conservative? And now Apple is threatening banning Parler too?

Doesn't Apple stand for freedom of expression, stand with gays and PRIDE? Does Apple believe us brown, gays, blacks, hispanics etc aren't allowed to have differing view points? This is a deeply disturbing and concerning thing which Apple is doing and essentially pouring gasoline over already polarized population. Apple is forgetting that until a few decades ago, us minorities like blacks, gays, jews etc were threatened with the same censorship. Apple should reflect on this and stop this blatant censorship. Otherwise I along with my friends and family will stop supporting and purchasing Apple products. There would remain no reason for me to support Apple if they have forgotten their own 1984 ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I

Regards,

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#555

Post by platinumrad » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 1:59 AM UTC

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #356

caconym_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

> They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. "in defense of looting" And while I'm at it - why isn't China being deplatformed? They literally just posted on their embassy twitter account saying they fixed minority women who were "baby-making machines." One can only guess they mean sterilization. It's obvious who's allowed to be inhumane…

> One can only guess they mean sterilization.

Only if you read it in the least charitable way possible and in the context of unverified claims from fringe figures like Adrian Zenz. It's a bad tweet, but the literal reading is that due to "emancipation" they are no longer only "baby making machines". Not even CCP propagandists are clumsy enough to admit to forced sterilization in a public forum.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#556

Post by gedy » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #526

botwriter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

A significant number of people are threatened by rational critical thinking. They instill these values in their children who then they go off on raving rampages touting false patriotism. You can't make them listen. Taking away their echo chambers is the only way to cool them off.

Honestly, I think you could say the same about both sides of the left/right divide.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#557

Post by LetsPlayNice » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

lanstin wrote: post #444

botwriter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

Deplatforming isn’t censorship, it is publishers saying they find said speech to be garbage. I don’t typically stop arguing someone because I have convinced them of my view but because I guess further interaction with them on the topic is a waste of energy. I am confident in all my arguments but a lot of people are too dumb and too emotional to be worth debating. And in the group context, arguing without moderation h…

That is censorship. Prior to this point in time only hate speech, inciteful, vulgar, things were censored. To remove speech from the view of others that is contrary to your own simply because you believe it is "garbage" is censorship. Perhaps the other side believes your speech should be censored. Let's have your comment removed because of your generalization of speech you don't like as "garbage" doesn't conform with the guidelines i just thought of right now and actually, i think your comment is "garbage". How to punish you for your opinion now? 12 hours ban? 24? Deplatformed? Where does it end? THAT is censorship.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#558

Post by ratww » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:01 AM UTC

LetsPlayNice wrote: post #527

ratww wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large portion of extremists are not willing to discuss the results of the election even with other Republicans. People were calling Pence a traitor, boycotting Fox, etc. Those people are not willing to talk to or listen to anyone who's supposedly on their side but has a different opinion. What makes you think they will listen to the "other side"?

I understand what you're saying, but in my limited experience, it appears it isn't exactly what information is being presented so much as How it is presented. Often I see some with a differing opinion begin along the lines of: "You're an idiot Trumper, you're killing the planet!!" How about begin with a question to engage? For example: " why is it you think climate change doesn't exist? From the studies I've seen, I…

You seem to be requesting perfection from one side but not from the other.

To keep on the previous example: Pence and Fox News never called anyone "idiot Trumper" or anything and they are being attacked by that crowd.

About climate change: Greta Thunberg has been called all kinds of names without equivalent provocation.

And there's a lot of people willing to engage with climate change deniers in the way you're suggesting they should, but a large part of climate change deniers are not willing to accept that those people are acting in good faith. There's lot of accusations that non-deniers are paid shills and stuff like that.

Again, why does every person on one side has to be perfect, but the other side gets a pass? Even the Republicans can't control the Trump crowd.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#559

Post by tanseydavid » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

lanstin wrote: post #444

botwriter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the left have to censor the right? Surely they should be able to beat the right with logical and reasoned arguments? Censorship has always struck me as a tool that a side which isn't confident in its arguments uses.

Deplatforming isn’t censorship, it is publishers saying they find said speech to be garbage. I don’t typically stop arguing someone because I have convinced them of my view but because I guess further interaction with them on the topic is a waste of energy. I am confident in all my arguments but a lot of people are too dumb and too emotional to be worth debating. And in the group context, arguing without moderation h…

Isn't deplatforming the term that gets used when certain individuals, invited to speak at a University (for example) get prevented from actually saying anything due to intentional disruption?

Would you consider this to be censorship? Does it make a difference who the speaker is?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#560

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

tanseydavid wrote: post #553

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant number of people are threatened by rational critical thinking. They instill these values in their children who then they go off on raving rampages touting false patriotism. You can't make them listen. Taking away their echo chambers is the only way to cool them off.

"You can't make them listen." You are correct about that but why are you so set on making other adults think the way you do?

I don't need them to think like me. I need them to be self-reflective enough to admit when they're wrong. You can see this inability in action when their pugnacious behavior is held up to the light and they immediately dodge with conspiracy theories about planted agitators from the other side.