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Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

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Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#691

Post by hype7 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #612
oceanplexian wrote: post #537

IMHO there are things that are much more scary than some trespassing into government buildings or a riot. The possibility that we might slide backwards from traditionally liberal ideas spawned from the enlightenment is utterly terrifying. And we are rapidly heading in that direction.

Liberal ideas from the enlightenment are alive and well. Now if the government had banned Trump from speaking, then you would have a point. Twitter banning Trump is, at root, a business making a business decision. Here's reality, and I'm going to date myself here, but there were, long ago, enormously popular digital spaces called BBS's. You could chat, play games (MUDs mostly), etc etc. They are, by and large, no lon…

Yeah, except for the fact that there’s no one bbs “to rule them all”. The power these platforms have mean they’re up there in terms of influence of govt.

As I saw concisely said on Twitter: If you can silence a king, you are the king

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#692

Post by jpxw »

Parler, Trump’s logical next step after Twitter, has just been removed from the Play Store.

There’s a level of co-ordination at play here that should be worrying to people who care about freedom of speech.

And before some idiot tells me that the 1st Amendment doesn’t apply to private companies, I’m not making a legal point here, I’m making a moral one.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#693

Post by ta2987 »

iconjack wrote: post #655
handmodel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic isn't that hard. Person says bad things to whip up a mob - Twitter unsure to take him seriously or literally. Mob actually materializes and several people die - Twitter sure they now have to take him literally

Black Lives Matter is still allowed on Twitter. Dozens of people have died from their protests and riots, not to mention hundreds of businesses vandalized, looted, and set afire. Ditto Antifa. This ban is utterly political, which, depending on how "libertarian" you are, may be fine. But the precedent is not a good one in my opinion.

Might as well change the name of the political party to the Whataboutican Party.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#694

Post by thefucnjosh »

iconjack wrote: post #655
handmodel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic isn't that hard. Person says bad things to whip up a mob - Twitter unsure to take him seriously or literally. Mob actually materializes and several people die - Twitter sure they now have to take him literally

Black Lives Matter is still allowed on Twitter. Dozens of people have died from their protests and riots, not to mention hundreds of businesses vandalized, looted, and set afire. Ditto Antifa. This ban is utterly political, which, depending on how "libertarian" you are, may be fine. But the precedent is not a good one in my opinion.

Who has died? Can you name names?

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#695

Post by sdwa »

krona wrote: post #328
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #168

Okay, let's retroactively suspend John McCain for singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran" on a hot mike. President George W. Bush should be suspended for invading Iraq on false or flimsy pretexts, resulting in 6,000 American soldiers killed and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Obama lied when he said "you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan" eleven times and this turned out not to be true (90% anyway). Sh…

If Gutenberg could've been pressured in to restricting what combinations of words were allowed in his press, the enlightenment ultimately may never have happened. Simple as that. The problem is today's printing presses are not owned by the people who use them, and can be confiscated without warning or recourse. The consequence will be the end of liberal society, but society will demand it.

Ummm maybe I'm mistaken but censorship was widespread throughout Europe during the enlightenment and yet the enlightenment still happened. The paranoid American style where anything but free speech in the most absolute and extreme terms is guaranteed to result in tyranny and the destruction of civilisation itself isn't really born out by any of the facts.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#696

Post by Tycho »

ve55 wrote: post #44

This ban seems to heavily take advantage of the current moment, as it's obvious that he has tweeted worse things in the past. It's strange that they picked such a poor way to justify the ban when they could have made a significantly stronger case, and in doing so could have convinced millions more people that they are trying their best to apply policies evenly. For example, I have a hard time imagining why they chose…

The news media reliably produces these “something must be done” stories that the powerful can then use as cover for actions they normally wouldn’t dare to take. And all at the same time - no coordination necessary, no central agenda, just an understanding that for some short period, all sorts of questionable actions will be excusable. A sort of Schelling point for anti-societal behaviour.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#697

Post by Retric »

bargl wrote: post #510
dredmorbius wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The environment has changed. Previously theoretic risks are now manifest, demonstrated, and cognizable. Actual riots, insurrection, disruption of government, assaults on law enforcement, damage to government buildings, theft of government property, violence, and deaths, have occurred. The instigator is unrepentent and non-credible in what are at best tepid disavowals. The totality of context has changed. If "he has t…

I agree with the action and disagree with their justification. Because of the weakness of their justification, this could be further gasoline on the fire for his 74 million supporters. I frequently find myself having to argue with said supporters, and I can't argue that this justification makes sense other than to say... well they should have banned him before hand. It feels like they were looking for almost anything…

Calling everyone who voted for Trump a supporter isn’t accurate. I know people who strongly dislike him and voted for him over Biden. As a lower bound you can estimate around 8% of voters will donate to each campaign which clearly marks them as supporters. Perhaps as many as 40% of those 74 million votes come from strong supporters who might not donate but will advocate for him among friends and family etc.

However, mostly it’s based on party affiliation where people voting against him in a primary would vote for him in a general election.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#698

Post by chrononaut »

garyrichardson wrote: post #365
handmodel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic isn't that hard. Person says bad things to whip up a mob - Twitter unsure to take him seriously or literally. Mob actually materializes and several people die - Twitter sure they now have to take him literally

Additionally I believe wholesale banning the leader of a country from a platform like twitter is not black or white. Their persona is different and requires different treatment than any other given account. I suspect two factors went into the calculus this time: he has proved himself desperately dangerous AND he's got less than 2 weeks left in his term.

I have come to this realization recently as well. "Deplatforming" people of significant real-world power, or largely any world leader, is notably different than deplatforming an average person. A lot of comments I feel are conflating the effects of banning an average person, or an average person trying to become more well-known ("candidate Trump"), with an established world leader.

People with power have real consequences on the life of each individual. I admit I don't know how to treat those two groups but I don't think the arguments used for the average person are the same arguments that should be applied to world leaders, and vice versa.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#699

Post by esc_colon_q »

garyrichardson wrote: post #365
handmodel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic isn't that hard. Person says bad things to whip up a mob - Twitter unsure to take him seriously or literally. Mob actually materializes and several people die - Twitter sure they now have to take him literally

Additionally I believe wholesale banning the leader of a country from a platform like twitter is not black or white. Their persona is different and requires different treatment than any other given account. I suspect two factors went into the calculus this time: he has proved himself desperately dangerous AND he's got less than 2 weeks left in his term.

Don't forget GA - Dems won full control, and will now have at least some ability to legislate. So Twitter et al need to be thinking about how to get ahead of the complaints that the left has against section 230 (the left hates it because they are not forced to aggressively moderate, the right hates it because they are allowed to moderate at all). This was not looking likely to be something they had to worry about until the surprise sweep in Georgia, so I'd argue that may have played as big a role as the craziness in DC.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#700

Post by jart »

paganel wrote: post #224

It's a purge, had just read 5 minutes ago that they had suspended Michael Flynn's account, now I'm seeing that FB has decided to ban a community of over half a million people [1] supposedly because their political opinions are not in the best interest of FB the company right at this moment. Of course, I had to get all that info from thedonald.win because almost no-one else is talking about this. Coincidentally, I als…

There's a bot (https://twitter.com/TrumpsAlert) which was intended to track Trump unfollows and it appears around 6% of ~500 people Rudy Giuliani follows had their accounts suspended today. I was surprised to see Ben Garrison on that list since I'm old enough to remember when the left liked his cartoons. It's like that scene where Catelyn Stark talks about what will happen if Robb fails.
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