Spending the weekend building Signal for iOS so I can try to dump message contents before I send an iPhone in to Apple. Just astounding that there is deliberately no way to backup messages (which has be available on Android for some time). Definite love-hate relationship with users, which I fully reciprocate. So great job getting WhatsApp import working. But too bad you can't export anything from Signal. Dark pattern…
Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
191–200 of 283 posts
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#192I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…
I can't walk my mom through the archaic Signal backup/restore all the time.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…
> the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do This is the core problem as why many projects don't get mainstream. They have 2 options: they can focus on what they think is a priority, or on what the public thinks is a priority. I'm not saying Signal is wrong on doing what they are doing, as they are being successful among some niches (i.e: tech). But to grab Whatsapp user…
They're singularly focused on the user experience and what users want.
Uninstall / reinstall / multiple-devices works flawlessly.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#194This is blowing up quite big now and I have managed to shift a lot of my friends to Signal now, I wonder if WhatsApp will go back on its decision. As we stand now even Signal is not safe because of the business model. I wonder what's the model on messaging apps that will work. I don't want the OS creators to own the messaging platforms as well by virtue of subsidising it through OS/hardware.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? I can't believe that. I mean, in a sense, all software is just a vehicle for the data it processes, and the actual value lies in the data - not the software. That data is chats for Signal. If they think that's worthless, even just the history of it, it means they don't really value their own application. They are wrong.
The Signal protocol is forward-secret. I don't know the nitty-gritty specifics of the protocol, but the essence is this: You don't want someone getting access to your account two years from now to be able to access every old message. Consider every message a separate object that gets encrypted. The keys are changed/updated each time a new device is added to an account. That new device only knows the new key(s), and t…
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…
>...the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. The Signal Protocol is obsessively forward secret. So it would be reasonable for those that have put so much work into getting rid of old messages for good would not value them.
But it really isn't available to the software author to know how long we want to keep a message for. If I want I can set a disappearing message timer.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your point and use case are valid but unrelated. I agree with the parent comment but not with your sentiment.
The thing is: your use case and wants seems to be different than like, 90% of Whatsapp users, as they expect to never lose their history. So... Signal is not a replacement to Whatsapp
I don't know much about WhatsApp, and I've never lost any message in Signal, so I am not sure I am well equipped to discuss whether it's fit for that purpose. But I would certainly love to save individual messages in some sort of vault, as well.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, from the perspective of the crypto it doesn't matter. But it defeats the point of building a forward-secret system. Think of it like this: if I'm an attacker that breaks into the forward-secret chat app on your device, and you have kept a perfect record of every conversation you've ever had using that crypto system in _the same place you keep your identity keys_, then does it really matter whether the messagi…
Chat history isn't immediately at odds with PFS. As I see it PFS first and foremost is for protecting messages in transit. This is to prevent dragnet-style surveillance. Chat history means giving up some measure of at-rest security, but it has no impact on the in transit part. Personally I also think some compromise of at-rest is a reasonable trade-off for a lot of consumer contexts because physical capture of your d…
I'm no expert, but if all you care about is transit security, I don't think you need PFS (in E2EE messaging! TLS is a different story, because you have to trust the server). Just protect your private key. But if you're carrying multiple device's worth of accumulated messages _right alongside_ your private key, then what's the point of rotating ephemeral keys after each message?
EDIT: I agree about a compromise on PFS/chat history being reasonable in most scenarios. But I also think that defaults are really important, especially as the contents of chat history can be leaked by other participants, whose chat backups you can't really control. It's a tough problem to solve for everyone.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#199Why does Signal require a phone number, after all these years? It's a gigantic red flag that they unnecessarily require a tie-in to the primary governmental communication surveillance system. I've seen multiple attempted explanations, but nothing convincing.
Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import
#200That's funny. People use Whatsapp because outside US and Asia is the worldwide de facto standard for messaging. The new TOS does not state that Whatsapp is going to read your messages, actually even the non-techo-savvy population in Europe knows that Whatsapp uses end-to-end encryption (they just know that "it cannot be intercepted"), so they use it for good reasons, and will continue to do so, because 99% of people…
I (sadly) agree with you on this. (Ciao Salvatore)
I'm surprised you're being downvoted, is it possibly because of the reference to the current POTUS being "silenced" on Twitter (despite you later state that you're anti-Trump)?
Anyway, I believe you're incorrect on your stance on the new TOS, but I'm studying it more now because I am also a bit confused and I've read conflicting interpretations.
Edit: part of the confusion might stem from the fact that TOS in Europe do not include the data-sharing part with Facebook, which is instead included elsewhere [0]
(HN user antirez is based in Europe, not in the US)
[0]: https://twitter.com/NiamhSweeneyNYC/status/13471849630163394...