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Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

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Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#611

Post by blisterpeanuts »

watwut wrote: post #514
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Or because their opinions leads them to construct bombs or shoot people." Who exactly is "they"? Anyone who disagrees with you? Anyone who votes for a Republican candidate? Trump supporters? Some subset of Trump supporters who say the election was fraudulent? What about Trump supporters who say the election MAY have been fraudulent -- do they also get silenced? This is a slippery slope. You either have freedom of…

They are people who put bomb in RNC and brought one to capitol a day before yeasterday. They includes nashville bomber and whoever organized Mitchigan terrorist plot. They are also proud boys starting fights. It is not like US would have shortage of organized political violence lately. It is pretty easy to find "they".

Your evidence is quite flimsy.

The Nashville bomber was one guy committing suicide and he even warned in advance.

The Michigan kidnapping plot was about 5-6 idiots who did not represent some kind of farflung organization.

The Proud Boys have not started fights, to my knowledge. They have marched peacefully down the street holding U.S. flags and the like, and been violently attacked by antifa elements. They show up at left wing/antifa demonstrations but don't attack; they fight back when provoked. They've been demonized by left wing news as "white supremacists" ironically even though their leader is a black guy.

So when you say "it is pretty easy to find 'they'", you need to support that statement. It's pretty easy to make stuff up, too, and I believe a lot of people are being censored on the basis of hearsay and madeup nonsense.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#612

Post by nwsm »

CyberRabbi wrote: post #499
andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Were you scared of the women’s March murdering you after they “stormed” the capitol? https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064?s=20

Was I scared by people sitting on the Capitol steps [sic]?

No I was not.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#613

Post by runarberg »

CyberRabbi wrote: post #499
andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Were you scared of the women’s March murdering you after they “stormed” the capitol? https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064?s=20

Again, there is room for nuance.

There is a fundamental difference between storming the house with the intent of stopping a democratic process (the confirming of the next president) and marching to it to deliver a message.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#614

Post by gfodor »

tomatocracy wrote: post #583
gfodor wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worry about all of that as well, but the problem with your last point is you are opening the door for network providers to be the arbiters of what is considered radicalization or not. They shouldn't be the decider of that, our laws should. If the FBI tells them to shut something down with a legal order, and our society has concluded it is just, so be it. In the limit what you would get is a world where speech is ba…

The big historical problem with this approach isn't "the arbitrary CEOs of a few large corporations" making unfair decisions (not to say that this couldn't be a problem now or in future). It's that governments (both good and bad) have pressured those companies behind closed doors to censor content governments don't like but which they haven't (or can't) go to the trouble of making illegal. This creates a huge account…

Yes my argument isn't one based upon history so much as a recognition that the stable state of our society seems to be destined to terminate in one where most human communication is mediated by the Internet not physical space. So whatever power structures, incentives, and ethics we lay down now are likely to echo far into the future, if not forever.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#615

Post by davesque »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #609
davesque wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all In normal times, I would agree. Philosophies and ideals like this effectively discourage people from taking action. That makes a lot of sense during times of peace when our asses aren't actively on the line. However, these are not normal times. We are facing a threat that might just overwhelm our society and rob us of our way of life. We must act now…

To only adhere to ideals when it's convenient is the same as having no ideals at all.

Would you have said the same thing on the Capitol steps on Wednesday?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#617

Post by eyelidlessness »

commandlinefan wrote: post #606
eyelidlessness wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is being censored. You’re perfectly welcome to go on 4chan or breitbart or parler or even other subreddits or just build a new platform. No one is entitled to use other people’s resources and effort to have their views amplified without moderation by those people offering that service. Edit: every time I post a comment like this here I get downvoted. I’m not complaining, downvote away. But I have to wonder if…

> go on 4chan or breitbart or parler or even other subreddits or just build a new platform Only because the cancel mob hasn't also figured a way to shut down those sites and prohibit you from building a platform of your own. Yet.

Do... do you realize that a subreddit isn’t a website? That it’s hosted and operated by Reddit?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#618

Post by beerandt »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #559
klyrs wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because they're laughably ineffective and tend to shit their own kitchens. It's also last year's news, a whataboutism to deflect from the actual insurrection that occurred this week.

"Shitting in their own kitchen" got many/most major cities to examine how they allocate police and social service resources just like the protesters wanted.

Negotiate with terrorists, expect more terrorism.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#619

Post by pjc50 »

pedroma wrote: post #547
ekidd wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on the Internet since 1994, and it has always been the case that if you made a sufficiently odious pest of yourself over a long enough period of time, that someone would contact your university, employer or ISP, and you would lose your account, or at least your access to Usenet. You were always perfectly free to go find a new account elsewhere if anyone would have you. But there was always a point where if…

This is why *chan websites have gotten so popular. Being anonymous in everything you post is refreshing. Short of posting illegal content, almost anything goes.

"Refreshing" in the "great place to plan a coup" sense?

Eventually they are going to find that there's a limit to how much violence you can incite before getting slapped down, legally or otherwise.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#620

Post by devmunchies »

dboreham wrote: post #402
gfodor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

> inadvertently slip into extremism Hate when that happens..

I loved it actually. Its was invigorating—like a cold shower. But this was years ago when I was in my 20s.

I don't go on 4chan anymore (or any social media outside HN [1]) and have mellowed out but it gave me the courage to call BS from either "side".

My theory is that 4chan hasn't become more extreme in the last 10 years. It's that "judgment-zones" like twitter and reddit have caused everyone else to become softer.

[1]: I'm serious, I didn't know about any stuff happening in the capitol until I saw it on HN.

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