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Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

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Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#171

Post by Evidlo »

dopu wrote: post #148
sim_card_map wrote: post #129

Signal is not an open alternative. It's not federated, but most importantly, they don't allow 3rd party clients: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... So you are stuck with their Electron junk without any options. Matrix should be promoted as an open alternative instead.

Are these things so important that we should give up the easier maintainability (and potentially, security) that comes from centralization and the standardization of user clients? I absolutely think projects like Matrix are worthwhile, but it seems foolish to me to argue that there are no benefits that come from doing things the way Signal does. Besides, as sexy as decentralization is, in the wild it is not really pr…

> Mastodon is decentralized, but last I heard ~50% of users were on 3 nodes

I would argue that the user distribution does not matter. What's important is eliminating network effects, which you get with federation.

I think most people would consider email a successful federated service, and yet far more than half of users are only on the biggest three servers.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/whos-the-biggest-u-s-e-mail-se...

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#172

Post by pbronez »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #143
simias wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal's devs, for better or worse, are very opinionated. If you don't do it moxie's way then you're doing it wrong. I was once shut down on HN by the Signal posse because I said that I'd like to have a Signal client library that I could use to write my own custom lightweight client. Apparently I'm not worthy and clearly incapable of writing secure code. Meanwhile I have to use that crappy, gigantic official electron…

> I'd like to have a Signal client library that I could use to write my own custom lightweight client. You already have that. Signal-cli is based on a standalone Java library distributed as part of the Signal codebase. Of course it is an unofficial client and the Signal team would really prefer you not use it, but if the Signal-cli team can develop something from that library, you probably could too.

I didn’t know that existed. Is there some way to use that to create a backup solution?

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#173

Post by skinkestek »

Yeroc wrote: post #151
skinkestek wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal isn't meant to be a mainstream one-size-fits-all, even tptacek admits as much: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22371316 He actually seemed annoyed that everyone insisted on using it for everything :-) If you need bulletproof cryptographically verifiable encryption - use Signal. If one wants to plan dinner, use whatever fits your bill. (And if in addition to the same supposedly bulletproof encryption as Si…

The downside of that attitude is that if a chat program is only used for what governments consider subversive activities then it will be targeted to be shutdown. It is much better to have a general-purpose, secure chat program that IS mainstream making it more difficult for oppressive regimes to target.

Or we can use a number of different programs for different purposes like I do:

- exchanging passwords? encrypted mail, Signal or something else E2E-encrypted

- work: whatever work says. Mostly slack.

- discussions with friends and family: Telegram

- online shouting competitions: twitter

- showing off: Instagram

- telling Facebook who my friends are and how often I talk to them: WhatsApp ;-)

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#174

Post by DavidSJ »

_l4jh wrote: post #19

I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…

Exactly this.

I wanted to use Signal as my primary messenger. I really did. But I had a ton of sync problems between my phone and my desktop client, tried to report them, and the developers didn’t care. Then one day I got a new phone and discovered I’d lost my old Signal identity and there was no way to export my messages from my old phone. And the developers didn’t care about that, either.

They always had some excuse for why it was the “right” behavior and the user’s fault. For example: clients just can’t sync more than 1000 messages, and if you go this long without using your desktop client, well, you’re out of luck, and you should have realized this.

I just can’t recommend a platform on which the developers don’t care about usability.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#175

Post by m463 »

sjaak wrote: post #6
FreakyT wrote: post #5

The issue with Signal that annoys me most is the complete lack of any meaningful backup/export on iOS. I lost my entire chat history when I got a new phone because their bizarre "proximity based" solution failed.

Why is keeping a chat history important? I don't take notes of IRL conversation I have, they're ephemeral. Not trolling, honestly curious :-)

It depends on what type of person you are.

Some people are nostalgic and find great comfort in something like a chat history or a photo album (sometimes they're almost one and the same)

Nobody really needs it. Arguably it might be a burden or an impediment to growth.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#176

Post by smarx007 »

godelski wrote: post #134
smarx007 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually try to take paper notes of almost all IRL/online meetings I take part in :)

Serious question, really? Like when you're just having beers with your friends? Why? Does it make your friends feel uncomfortable? What's the benefit to you?

I mean work/project meetings, not "social gatherings". Essentially, when an encounter serves more that just a social purpose and information is shared, I either want a record of that meeting (information) to be kept or for that meeting not to take place at all if there is nothing noteworthy (again, does not apply to meetings that have a predominantly social function).

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#177

Post by ubercow13 »

jariel wrote: post #156
tapia wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is the thing. WhatsApp used to be a payed app, and the promise was that they would never sell our use your data for adds. Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise. I used to pay for WhatsApp because I believed them then. And it got big because of many people did that too. That is the thing that I found the most insulting about WhatsApp now.

"Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise." This is really a false narrative. The 'sell out' was the 'sale to Facebook'. A business is not really going to necessarily keep that kind of promise, they are going to do what's best for them - that's why they made the acquisition. This idea that the WA founders could somehow hold Zuck to that 'promise' is fantasty. They are not naive, they knew what they were doin…

You seem to be contradicting yourself - that is was never a good idea to believe their promise and pay for their chat service, but that also this problem would be solved if everyone paid for a chat service.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#178

Post by KAMSPioneer »

beezle wrote: post #158
upofadown wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. The Signal Protocol is obsessively forward secret. So it would be reasonable for those that have put so much work into getting rid of old messages for good would not value them.

>Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. Why? Can you please explain as my understanding of perfect forward secrecy is that should not matter. I'm not a crypto expert so perhaps I've overlooked something?

I mean, from the perspective of the crypto it doesn't matter. But it defeats the point of building a forward-secret system.

Think of it like this: if I'm an attacker that breaks into the forward-secret chat app on your device, and you have kept a perfect record of every conversation you've ever had using that crypto system in _the same place you keep your identity keys_, then does it really matter whether the messaging system was "protected" by a forward-secret system? You might as well just have scrapped all that complexity and had non-forward-secure messages if you want to keep a perfect, eternal record of your conversations.

I actually think the Keybase guys did a great job at this. They have non-forward-secure chats by default (so that you never lose chat history), but exploding messages (which delete themselves after a short time by design) are forward-secret, since then it actually makes a difference.

I suppose it depends on your "threat model..." How do you want to use your chat system?

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#179

Post by beefee »

Why does Signal require a phone number, after all these years? It's a gigantic red flag that they unnecessarily require a tie-in to the primary governmental communication surveillance system. I've seen multiple attempted explanations, but nothing convincing.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#180

Post by noja »

prophesi wrote: post #10
FreakyT wrote: post #5

The issue with Signal that annoys me most is the complete lack of any meaningful backup/export on iOS. I lost my entire chat history when I got a new phone because their bizarre "proximity based" solution failed.

What went wrong with their local device transfer solution? Asking as I'm on iOS and have yet to get a new phone.

Nothing is wrong with it. There was a bug and they fixed it: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4623
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