Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#451

Post by d1zzy » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

zionic wrote: post #357

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

-Don't like it? Make your own subreddit/group/discord! X -Don't like it? Make your own image host! X -Don't like it? Make your own social media! X -Don't like it? Make your own aggregator! X -Don't like it? Make your own cloudfare/hosting provider (you are here) -Don't like it? Make your own ISP! -Don't like it? Make your own banking/payment infrastructure! Edit: TIL HN doesn't support emoji

Like you listed above there are lots of options still available, that's not really the limiting factor here. I believe a more subtle and harder barrier to overcome for posting controversial Internet content is going to be the credit card companies or payment processors. They are much fewer and if they refuse to do business with you you'd have no means to pay for any service you might need. Except, of course, for cryptocurrency...

EDIT: One option I think you forgot is using one of the existing hosting providers but hide the web service under a TOR hidden service. That way people can't track it back to your hosting provider to complain about the hosted content (and you can use encryption of the content that is decrypted on the fly when being served by the web server) if you worry about the hosting provider doing some scans of customer content tho that seems very unlikely to me.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#452

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #37

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

That's the danger in going to such lengths to shut down disagreeable viewpoints. People say "make your own website", but that becomes a race to the bottom when we start politicizing server hosts and ISPs. When you completely shut people up, that doesn't mean they're gone, and now you don't know what they're thinking. Meanwhile you're actually tyrannical because a monopoly on information makes the mass 80% believe tha…

> we start politicizing server hosts and ISPs

I suspect we're not very far off. However, completely anonymous, decentralized, uncensorable network ideas like Freenet, TOR, I2P never really took off only because they needed a critical mass to support them: they're not technologically infeasible, they just didn't have enough support to get off the ground. If half the users of the "normal" internet are banned from it, they're going to start discovering peer-to-peer systems - that's what happened with the internet itself, after all.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#453

Post by Balgair » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #363

netsharc wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who cannot visit every single polling place in the country (I visited zero and voted by mail) I cannot with absolute certainty proclaim that there there was no widespread, coordinated and shockingly well-concealed election fraud. As a person of logic and reason, I strongly belief this did not take place, and I would need multiple, reputable sources of information and likely trusted peer acceptance before…

> it seems the seditionists in congress who are also still claiming voter fraud without evidence (like Cruz or Hawley) just want to keep the Trump base very very pissed off, and very very motivated. Or they want to keep the crazies on their side, rather than being turned on suddenly the way the insufficiently strident (e.g.,.most visibly recently, Pence) have often been. Still had the effect of contributing to radica…

A lot can happen in 4 years time for an obese elderly man with a history of heart problems, a covid-19 infection, a terrible diet, and a very stressful travel schedule.

The odds that Donny dies of natural causes before 2024 are not nothing. Trying to position yourself as the inheritor of his base is a savvy political move (despite my personal horror at such a callous idea).

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#454

Post by rglover » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #304

rglover wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay attention to the narrative shift: it went from "build your own platform," to now calls for removing those alternatives entirely ( https://twitter.com/slpng_giants/status/1347522919992336387 ). The end goal is total censorship.

The end goal is cessation of real and specific incitements to violence against people and property, and planning thereof. Much as you like to spin it, if there weren't notable, repeated documented cases of idiots on Parler coordinating protests and outright violence, then no-one would really give a shit. Making this out to be "the left wants to remove our ability to speak whatsoever" is not a "narrative shift", it's…

It's not conjecture (it's abductive reasoning) and it's not about left vs right. It's about the precedent being set.

Once that precedent is set, people who once felt they were "on the right side of history" will equally be silenced for whatever reason the mob wants and then wonder "what happened?" This has played out before in history. The only difference is now we have smartphones.

A quote I just saw that encapsulates this well:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” - C.S. Lewis

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#455

Post by jedberg » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

> Whatever they call it, this is censorship.

By definition it is not. Only governments can censor. This is just a private entity making a decision.

You have the right to say what you want, but I don't have to let you into my living room to say it.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#456

Post by gruez » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

eznzt wrote: post #296

justaman wrote: post #16

I'm generally against the idea of banning subreddits because they just move elsewhere. However, if this is going to be the official stance of Reddit admins, I encourage them to take a look at /r/sino and a few other communities that regularly violate the rules.

What is wrong with /r/sino?

Have you visited it? It's basically a pro-china circlejerk subreddit.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#457

Post by sangnoir » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #32

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

> for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism

You are right to worry - I remember reading an article about (FB?) moderators on anti-vaxxer pages finding themselves inadvertently internalizing that worldview, despite previously consciously not believing in it. The human mind appears to absorb information after repeated exposure, despite any conscious efforts not too - I assume it's similar to how the placebo effect works even when the person "knows" it's a placebo.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#458

Post by lostmsu » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #224

cultus wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming works. A few people follow to other sites, but most don't. It also becomes harder to attract new cultists if one is shut out of major services. https://gnet-research.org/2020/05/11/weighing-the-value-and-...

Yes, it is one of the methods used by Russian government to silence the opposition. Though the platforms are usually privately owned, they all 'independently' decide that some content can't be allowed on them. Same will happen with the US. Sad.

This is not true. Russian government does not dictate FB and YouTube (which it does not own), and they would have to force ISPs to block these sites if they wanted to ban the content. I doubt ISPs would ban them themselves.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#459

Post by Glide » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #328

CodeGlitch wrote: post #266

So let me get this straight: It was fine when violence was insighted during the Arab Spring, but now it's not ok? I'm British and live in England so have no skin in the game, just amazed at the double standards by the major social media companies. On second thoughts perhaps I shouldn't be that surprised.

Are we going to sit here and act like the stated goals of the Arab Spring and Trump supporters are remotely equivalent morally?

From the perspective of their respective governments?

Yes. Absolutely yes.

The hands of those on the levers of power change over the years. Beware what you give them.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#460

Post by gremlinsinc » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

kr99x wrote: post #319

I've been having this argument more and more lately. People keep coming around to "surely, we must prevent *THIS* content?" and every time the answer is no. Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all , but only when it is categorically FREE and there are not exceptions "just this one time" Why just the other day, I had friends blow up on me for daring to suggest that a particular type of bigote…

Maybe reddit should completely end moderation then? So progressives and liberals can take over /r/conservative and post anything they want without fear of being banned? No more 'flaired users only'?

because that's ALSO censorship, no?

Also, who's stopping you from starting a reddit competitor and saying whatever you want? You have ZERO rights to THEIR customers, their users, etc.

I mean, can you go to the local news station and get on the air whenever you want? Because they aren't saying what you want to hear? No. They control who they put on the air. Social media is no different in this aspect.