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Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

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Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#151

Post by Yeroc »

skinkestek wrote: post #126
verytrivial wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a cart before the horse issue, no? I mean what is the point of obsessing about the security of the messages if you don't value the messages themselves? Some people[1] clearly value message history far beyond the transfer point to chat itself, and making people choose between being spied upon and not having message history, I think many people will choose trusting that they won't lose their messages. [1]…

Signal isn't meant to be a mainstream one-size-fits-all, even tptacek admits as much: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22371316 He actually seemed annoyed that everyone insisted on using it for everything :-) If you need bulletproof cryptographically verifiable encryption - use Signal. If one wants to plan dinner, use whatever fits your bill. (And if in addition to the same supposedly bulletproof encryption as Si…

The downside of that attitude is that if a chat program is only used for what governments consider subversive activities then it will be targeted to be shutdown. It is much better to have a general-purpose, secure chat program that IS mainstream making it more difficult for oppressive regimes to target.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#152

Post by tigerlily »

tw04 wrote: post #109
upofadown wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. The Signal Protocol is obsessively forward secret. So it would be reasonable for those that have put so much work into getting rid of old messages for good would not value them.

It's not reasonable to expect it to be a defacto messenger if you can't save chat history. Full stop. If I want a conversation to be private, I set expiring messages, for the rest of it, I want to be able to go back and reference things all the time. Whether it be digging up a song link I sent a buddy, or looking up the address someone sent me a week in advance. If they can't operate or are unwilling to operate under…

Be a cool feature if they let us encrypt chat history in a local file.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#153

Post by wcerfgba »

_l4jh wrote: post #19

I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…

I'd at least settle for having the messages sync properly between my devices. When I used Signal ~1 year ago on Linux desktop and Android phone, if I had it open on my mobile I would get the messages there, and then if I later opened the desktop client I didn't get the same messages there. Sometimes I purposefully move from phone to desktop because _typing on a small touchscreen sucks_ and I want to type on a keyboard. But fragmenting the message history just ruined usability for me. Hopefully it is better now.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#154

Post by beezle »

parliament32 wrote: post #118
_l4jh wrote: post #19

I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…

Why would you want this? You don't save history for other types of chats, like in person conversations or phone calls (even though you could, with your phone recording in your pocket or call recorder apps). If something important comes up, like an address or recipe, copy/paste it into your notes app. Otherwise set your messages to expire after a month and be done with it. I used to be a message-hoarder too, but I rec…

How about multimedia? Photos, videos? Docs that I may not wish to read now but have available at a later date if needed? Most of those I would rather leave 'archived' in context than pick and choose which to download to device storage and then have to further sort and annotate.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#155

Post by pgalvin »

moxie wrote: post #31
FreakyT wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their solution (as documented here: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba... ) requires that you place the devices "nearby" and wait for them to detect one another. For whatever reason, neither phone ever "saw" the other one (despite them being on the same network and physically next to one another). I tried this about 10 times before I finally gave up. (iPhone SE / iPhone 12 Pro) What made it…

Yeah, bummer. There were some iOS 14 changes that made this stop working as reliably, which was unfortunately right around the time people were getting new devices. It should be better now, and we're working on more stuff in this area.

With respect, as I otherwise feel you’ve made an amazing app on Android and iOS, why do you allow local backups to internal storage on Android but not iOS?

Enabling a backup on iOS, even if buried in advanced settings, that lets me export an encrypted .zip (for example, similar to Android) to my internal storage via the Files app would be tremendous. As it stands, I lost a very large amount of message history when an old iPhone broke.

I totally understand your reasons for not enabling iCloud backup, but why not a local encrypted backup via the Files app, just like Android?

Even if you feel this goes against your ethos, though I do not understand why that would only apply to iOS, it would be far better to go through a few warning messages and back up my messages than to lose years of conversations with a friend or partner who passed away. There’s hundreds upon hundreds of anecdotal stories where people value this or were burned by Signal on iOS, so clearly it is important to a large part of your existing and also potential userbase.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#156

Post by jariel »

tapia wrote: post #100
jariel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As we stand now even Signal is not safe because of the business model." ? Ok, good, but you do realize that this is the most existential concern of them all? Why does FB so aggressively pursue personal data? For advertising. Because 'that's the business model'. Do you think that any entity would be in that position if say, people were willing to actually pay $3/month for what seems to be very obviously a highly usef…

But that is the thing. WhatsApp used to be a payed app, and the promise was that they would never sell our use your data for adds. Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise. I used to pay for WhatsApp because I believed them then. And it got big because of many people did that too. That is the thing that I found the most insulting about WhatsApp now.

"Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise."

This is really a false narrative.

The 'sell out' was the 'sale to Facebook'.

A business is not really going to necessarily keep that kind of promise, they are going to do what's best for them - that's why they made the acquisition.

This idea that the WA founders could somehow hold Zuck to that 'promise' is fantasty. They are not naive, they knew what they were doing.

Not only did they know there was nothing they could do otherwise, but that there would be an existential pull from FB to push for data sharing that would be unavoidable.

The 'moral high ground' that the founders tried to take in public is really kind of despicable, because they knew exactly the cards in play when they sold.

If the 'promise' was to do with branding, or something secondary, but fine. But you don't sell drugs to a drug dealer with the promise that the dealer won't deal drugs.

Anyhow, we are where we are. People should fork over $1 month for chat. It would make a big difference.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#157

Post by costsNall »

Forbo wrote: post #38
costsNall wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has saved no chat logs, and just deleted pics, letters, and such from a long gone marriage; IMO, they’re not that important. In fact, shedding that memory shed cognitive distraction I did not know I had. If I want to connect to people I do it here and now. Talking to the past in my head is unhealthy.

I vouched for your comment, because your experience is still a valid data point. As a counter to that, I lost a close friend to suicide. It was really good to be able to reflect back on the conversations we had and relive the lighter moments we shared together. I agree that dwelling on those things can be unhealthy, but they can also be a valuable part of the healing process.

Sorry to hear that.

I went through the same in my 20s, grieved and moved on.

For what ever reason, reconnecting to it just makes me mad and depressed now. He’s not dealing with environmental collapse, political unrest, economic inequality, racism...

I find leaning into my anger over reality now leads me to be more productive than ennui over people no longer around to concern themselves with those issues.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#158

Post by beezle »

upofadown wrote: post #79
izacus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…

>...the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. The Signal Protocol is obsessively forward secret. So it would be reasonable for those that have put so much work into getting rid of old messages for good would not value them.

>Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy.

Why? Can you please explain as my understanding of perfect forward secrecy is that should not matter. I'm not a crypto expert so perhaps I've overlooked something?

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#159

Post by richardw »

godelski wrote: post #104
upofadown wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. Keeping around old messages more or less negates the value of forward secrecy. The Signal Protocol is obsessively forward secret. So it would be reasonable for those that have put so much work into getting rid of old messages for good would not value them.

Honestly I personally just want the ability to save specific messages. My friend sends me a recipe? Save. Just shooting the shit? Don't save. I don't understand why people want to save their whole chat history but I do understand why you'd want to save specific messages, and that's a big missing feature.

I don’t always know which are important messages until a while later. Someone mentions a useful service or name, so I search WhatsApp to find it. Moved phones recently, iOS backup was screwed up, and I lost some great covid memes and was looking for a specific one. Had to ask the sender to resend it to me.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#160

Post by tinus_hn »

leokennis wrote: post #58
officeplant wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main problem being you don't have access to the file structure on an iphone. So you can't simply drop a backed up folder in there like you can on Android. You are stuck needing the previous device.

Since iOS 12 or so, iPhone has a built in files app. Every app can integrate with that. So when I create a file (let’s say chat backup) in app A, I can put it in the files app. Then in app B (or app A on a new phone) I can easily open that file from the same files app.

Even before that every app got a documents folder that was shared between the app and iTunes
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