Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#391

Post by neogodless » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

It certainly fits the definition of censorship.

Now, not that this magically justifies it, but it is censorship made by large companies on information that is viewed by a large number of U.S. citizens. The content being targeted is important and relevant.

The content is misinformation about the integrity of the federal government, the election process, the thousands of individuals involved in maintaining the integrity of the election, the merit of every individual's vote and every eligible voter having their right to vote, the election representing the will of the people rather than being overridden by courts and legislators and so on.

This information is coming from a propaganda machine, a disinformation machine. And that machine includes President Donald Trump, complicit members of the Senate and Congress, various state and local legislators... that is to say powers of government with a vested interest in maintaining and expanding their power over people through means of manipulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_censorship

> Political censorship exists when a government attempts to conceal, fake, distort, or falsify information that its citizens receive by suppressing or crowding out political news that the public might receive through news outlets. In the absence of neutral and objective information, people will be unable to dissent with the government or political party in charge.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#392

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #205

electrotype wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do promote free speech, from all sides. Just join and give your opinion if you do not agree with something.

No moderation means it will be overrun with trolls and spammers. This is true of any discussion system. Once you grow beyond a certain point, typically a few dozen users or so moderation is necessary to avoid having the signal to noise ratio drop so low that all of the quality people leave.

I remember reading about Parler having that exact problem. Because of the "no-moderation" aspect, they were being overrun with spam and pornography.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#393

Post by de6u99er » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

What's also censorship is banning users from commenting in those subreddits.

That being said, I think serious tech companies should not be an enabler of fascists.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#394

Post by neaden » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

jakearmitage wrote: post #288

watwut wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because otherwise they will try to overturn elections and install one party state. Or because their opinions leads them to construct bombs or shoot people.

This is a textbook example of a straw man.

How is it a strawman, it literally just happened a few days ago.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#395

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

MrZongle2 wrote: post #311

BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

Exactly. There are dangerous extremists on both ends of the spectrum, but God forbid you want to assess the entire landscape in some forums. You're just mocked for being some kind of centrist , as if not being a slobbering partisan is a character flaw.

Only one party made their extremist the leader of their party.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#396

Post by gruez » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

jakearmitage wrote: post #325

gruez wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action . Not saying what happened on /r/donaldtrump actually met that criteria (that's up to a court to decide), but the precedent to silence people (by the government no less) is definitely there.

So you are against the freedom of speech principle?

What gave you that impression? Moreover, what do you mean by "the freedom of speech principle"? It can mean anything ranging from "you can literally say anything you want and the government should protect you while doing so (eg. punishing companies that refuse to transmit your speech)", to "most speech, excluding a laundry list of exceptions like hate speech, copyright infringement, defamation, heresy, certain ideologies, etc."

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#397

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

koolk3ychain wrote: post #297

As someone who voted for Joe Biden, I'm not surprised at all by the current response from the right, even those who aren't hell bent on supporting Trump. Silencing people doesn't make them go away or give up,it makes them double down on their beliefs (whether based on conspiracy theories or not) and continue to escalate. Good faith arguments and honest media are how we solve this problem, not by banning people we dis…

No one is obligated to deal with folks who consistently argue for their marginalization in bad faith.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#398

Post by gfodor » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

maxlamb wrote: post #248

gfodor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

How did it let you slip into extremism?

Memes are mind viruses and a robust immune system built from exposure and defeating of them is a good protection from the bad ones, but a good way to prevent being infected by a mind virus is to just never enter places where most people are already infected.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#399

Post by razius » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

vdnkh wrote: post #122

gfodor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

>free Internet A private company choosing who to allow on their platform? Seems like the freedom to me. And in the absence of any government action against these domestic terrorists (they have been planning exactly this violence for weeks), it's great to see private companies step in and take action.

> A private company choosing who to allow on their platform? Seems like the freedom to me.

I wonder when people stopped thinking. By the same argument, should they be allowed to block all black people?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#400

Post by danaliv » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

cercatrova wrote: post #353

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

This is the paradox of tolerance. We can tolerate having a free internet but if it leads to the intolerant taking over and making everything worse, we need to be intolerant of them now, not later.

Please, can we put this canard to rest? It is an extremely simplistic take that is bordering on cliche at this point. It adds nothing, it illuminates nothing, and it fails to address any of the very real and complex issues by turning everything into a binary of tolerant/intolerant.